Who was in the wrong?
Discussion
A chap I know who drives a van was waiting to pull out of a side street onto a main road at a peak time. He was indicating to turn right.
The traffic on the road is moving slowly due to volume and traffic lights/crossings etc.
The traffic moving from his right (which he has to cross in front of) slows down and comes to a halt. A lady in a car stops leaving enough room for him to pull out, behind her about 5 or 6 cars have also now stopped. She waves him across.
On the other side of the road a van driver moving slowly stops to give way to him and waves him out.
Our man gives both drivers a nod to acknowledge their kindness and slowly begins to pull out keeping his eyes on the road when..........BAM............ A motorcyclist has come up on the outside of the 5/6 cars and the lady waiting to his left and smashes right into the side of his van.
It is believed the motorcyclist was exceeding the speed limit. He has also overtaken a line of stationery vehicles.
As far as I know the insurance have sorted everything out and everyone is ok following the incident. But I'd like to hear fellow PH's opinions on who was in the wrong.
The traffic on the road is moving slowly due to volume and traffic lights/crossings etc.
The traffic moving from his right (which he has to cross in front of) slows down and comes to a halt. A lady in a car stops leaving enough room for him to pull out, behind her about 5 or 6 cars have also now stopped. She waves him across.
On the other side of the road a van driver moving slowly stops to give way to him and waves him out.
Our man gives both drivers a nod to acknowledge their kindness and slowly begins to pull out keeping his eyes on the road when..........BAM............ A motorcyclist has come up on the outside of the 5/6 cars and the lady waiting to his left and smashes right into the side of his van.
It is believed the motorcyclist was exceeding the speed limit. He has also overtaken a line of stationery vehicles.
As far as I know the insurance have sorted everything out and everyone is ok following the incident. But I'd like to hear fellow PH's opinions on who was in the wrong.
Driver is at fault. Irrespective of whether the cars on either carriageway have implied it is OK to cross, driver is the one moving across lanes. Filtering in stopped traffic is legal (albeit for cyclists) - does the same apply here?
ETA: Although I think the biker is to blame for not anticipating there could be cars turning out into the road.
ETA: Although I think the biker is to blame for not anticipating there could be cars turning out into the road.
A bit of both at fault really although the biker should expect cars to pull out of side roads in traffic conditions like that. His speed should have been low and he should have been looking out for vehicles pulling out.
The van driver should have expected the unexpected despite the other cars letting him out.
In the main the biker could have done things differently.
The van driver should have expected the unexpected despite the other cars letting him out.
In the main the biker could have done things differently.
Something similar to this happened to me once in York. I was trying to pull right from a side road and just as traffic had stopped to let me out a pedal cyclist came up the inside as fast as he could. If I hadn't have seen him I would have probably killed him and I'd have been blamed, but baring in mind it was pouring with rain and visibility was bad I'd hope cyclists wouldn't have been playing chicken with the traffic.
Sensibleboy said:
A bit of both at fault really although the biker should expect cars to pull out of side roads in traffic conditions like that. His speed should have been low and he should have been looking out for vehicles pulling out.
The van driver should have expected the unexpected despite the other cars letting him out.
In the main the biker could have done things differently.
I know the road well and I would say had the biker been doing even the limit (30) he should have had time to stop or at least brake. He did not have time to do either. The dent in the rear of the van signified that had he hit the cab the chap I know may be somewhat dead. The van driver should have expected the unexpected despite the other cars letting him out.
In the main the biker could have done things differently.
JmatthewB said:
Something similar to this happened to me once in York. I was trying to pull right from a side road and just as traffic had stopped to let me out a pedal cyclist came up the inside as fast as he could. If I hadn't have seen him I would have probably killed him and I'd have been blamed, but baring in mind it was pouring with rain and visibility was bad I'd hope cyclists wouldn't have been playing chicken with the traffic.
I know a cyclist who once did this and got hit by the car. He ended up winning his case. I'd say it was the van driver as IMHO regardless of what other drivers indicate, it's still your responsibility.
As a biker however, it's a risky move near a junction...but something I'm sure a lot of bikers have done (myself included when in a s
tty mood and in traffic).
It doesn't matter who's to blame if you're dead though. Hope that didn't happen!
As a biker however, it's a risky move near a junction...but something I'm sure a lot of bikers have done (myself included when in a s
tty mood and in traffic).It doesn't matter who's to blame if you're dead though. Hope that didn't happen!
I love the way these threads always say "But they were exceeding the speed limit".
If you had time to see that, WHY PULL OUT?
I call 50/50, depending on witness statements. The biker should have seen and expected the van pulling out, the van driver should have expected bikers filtering (which, in itself, is perfectly legal).
If you had time to see that, WHY PULL OUT?
I call 50/50, depending on witness statements. The biker should have seen and expected the van pulling out, the van driver should have expected bikers filtering (which, in itself, is perfectly legal).
Sensibleboy said:
A bit of both at fault really although the biker should expect cars to pull out of side roads in traffic conditions like that. His speed should have been low and he should have been looking out for vehicles pulling out.
The van driver should have expected the unexpected despite the other cars letting him out.
The van driver should have expected the unexpected despite the other cars letting him out.
Both parties will end up with a %age of blame, is the likelihood, although it obviously depends on the exact facts of the case.
Both drivers and riders ought to read summaries of the case law like this one very carefully:
http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/accidents...
It's not common that either party is entirely exonerated from blame.
Friend of mine had exactly the same accident a few years ago (as the biker), was filtering (albeit a bit too quickly) and a car pulled out of a side road in a gap in traffic. Was found to be 100% car drivers fault, although took years to sort out, and he was messed up pretty good (broken shoulder-off work for 6 months). As you're pulling out of the side road onto the main road the onus is on you to make sure the way is clear, but the biker is the vulnerable one and should probably taken more care for his own preservation. I know that due to my friends experience I take alot of care around junctions when filtering.
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