What happened to British cars!?
Discussion
So there are only 4 truly british owned car dealers now... 2 of then selling old cars (Morgan and Bristol cars) one makes track toys (caterham) and the other makes unaffordable super cars (mclaren)
When I think of British cars I think of Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Mclaren, Lotus, Vauxhall, Land rovers, range rovers, mini etc.
Why are there so little on the roads? And why have most of them sold out?
The reason I am bringing this up is because I spend a bit of time on the German Autobahns recently and they are dominated by high performance audis, mercs, bmws, and Porsches, and truth be told I'm a bit jealous that the British roads aren't dominated by our high performance cars, or even just british cars at all!
Are british cars just not made accessible compared to cheaper, higher performance, more desirable cars from elsewhere, or are they just undesirable in themselves?
When I think of British cars I think of Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Mclaren, Lotus, Vauxhall, Land rovers, range rovers, mini etc.
Why are there so little on the roads? And why have most of them sold out?
The reason I am bringing this up is because I spend a bit of time on the German Autobahns recently and they are dominated by high performance audis, mercs, bmws, and Porsches, and truth be told I'm a bit jealous that the British roads aren't dominated by our high performance cars, or even just british cars at all!
Are british cars just not made accessible compared to cheaper, higher performance, more desirable cars from elsewhere, or are they just undesirable in themselves?
It is because Thatcher's government, in the 1980's, decimated and destroyed every facet of the British Car Industry, with no vision of the future, placing more and more reliance on the 'British Service Industry PLC*' and banks and finance to modernise and shape the future of the country, in their view.
And for balance, before I am accused of being a blinkered militant - the Unions and Union leaders also facilitated that demise, by being greedy, short-sighted, unrealistic buffoons too, helping to cement the death of their own industry, through their ridiculous demands and conditions, galvanised by a lazy, slapdash workforce who couldn't see the future if it had been beaten into them.
Basically, it was a bad show all round, from all concerned, and treated our once-great manufacturing base as an ever-more political and bargaining tool for each side, in order to attain their own agendas, but without realising that they were all guilty of killing it all off, for good.
So now, in recession, we have found, to our detriment, that if we all had have been a little more careful and circumspect during those years - that we might have had a solid manufacturing base to fall back on in these hard times....but instead, we had nothing, because of the greed, stupidity and ignorance of a handful of individuals around 30 years ago.
Damn them all. They condemned us, years ahead of time.
And for balance, before I am accused of being a blinkered militant - the Unions and Union leaders also facilitated that demise, by being greedy, short-sighted, unrealistic buffoons too, helping to cement the death of their own industry, through their ridiculous demands and conditions, galvanised by a lazy, slapdash workforce who couldn't see the future if it had been beaten into them.
Basically, it was a bad show all round, from all concerned, and treated our once-great manufacturing base as an ever-more political and bargaining tool for each side, in order to attain their own agendas, but without realising that they were all guilty of killing it all off, for good.
So now, in recession, we have found, to our detriment, that if we all had have been a little more careful and circumspect during those years - that we might have had a solid manufacturing base to fall back on in these hard times....but instead, we had nothing, because of the greed, stupidity and ignorance of a handful of individuals around 30 years ago.
Damn them all. They condemned us, years ahead of time.
It would take a book to fully answer this so I won't even try to summarise. On balance though, catch up with the Top Gear episode where they get together the motor vehicles produced in the UK and you may feel a little better.
I see the Germans making similar errors now as the UK did 40-50 years ago. I predict the German advantage will be taken by the Eastern manufacturers if they continue to sit on their arses.
I see the Germans making similar errors now as the UK did 40-50 years ago. I predict the German advantage will be taken by the Eastern manufacturers if they continue to sit on their arses.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
It is because Thatcher's government, in the 1980's, decimated and destroyed every facet of the British Car Industry, with no vision of the future, placing more and more reliance on the 'British Service Industry PLC*' and banks and finance to modernise and shape the future of the country, in their view.
And for balance, before I am accused of being a blinkered militant - the Unions and Union leaders also facilitated that demise, by being greedy, short-sighted, unrealistic buffoons too, helping to cement the death of their own industry, through their ridiculous demands and conditions, galvanised by a lazy, slapdash workforce who couldn't see the future if it had been beaten into them.
Basically, it was a bad show all round, from all concerned, and treated our once-great manufacturing base as an ever-more political and bargaining tool for each side, in order to attain their own agendas, but without realising that they were all guilty of killing it all off, for good.
So now, in recession, we have found, to our detriment, that if we all had have been a little more careful and circumspect during those years - that we might have had a solid manufacturing base to fall back on in these hard times....but instead, we had nothing, because of the greed, stupidity and ignorance of a handful of individuals around 30 years ago.
Damn them all. They condemned us, years ahead of time.
Agreed but it is so much further reaching than this. Thatcher picked up a poisoned chalice but that doesn't let her off the hook. And for balance, before I am accused of being a blinkered militant - the Unions and Union leaders also facilitated that demise, by being greedy, short-sighted, unrealistic buffoons too, helping to cement the death of their own industry, through their ridiculous demands and conditions, galvanised by a lazy, slapdash workforce who couldn't see the future if it had been beaten into them.
Basically, it was a bad show all round, from all concerned, and treated our once-great manufacturing base as an ever-more political and bargaining tool for each side, in order to attain their own agendas, but without realising that they were all guilty of killing it all off, for good.
So now, in recession, we have found, to our detriment, that if we all had have been a little more careful and circumspect during those years - that we might have had a solid manufacturing base to fall back on in these hard times....but instead, we had nothing, because of the greed, stupidity and ignorance of a handful of individuals around 30 years ago.
Damn them all. They condemned us, years ahead of time.
The UK isn't down and out yet though however the mistakes of the past half century don't appear to have taught us much.
Google Red Robbo.
It got to the point where the government saw selling them off to foreign companies as the most cost effective solution. Everyone was to blame to a certain extent but it was the unions that put the final nail in the coffin as those same foreign companies that bought our car industry were wary of continuing production here because of the continual threat of strikes.
And remember that despite the fact we had superb car designers the actual build quality of the finished product was often terrible - wasn't it a Rover model that was longer on one side than the other?
BBC said:
"Between 1978 and 1979 Mr Robinson was credited with causing 523 walk-outs at Longbridge, costing an estimated £200m in lost production"
No company would ever be able to survive that, no matter how much money was pumped into it by successive governments. Add to that incredibly inept management and it was only ever going to fail.It got to the point where the government saw selling them off to foreign companies as the most cost effective solution. Everyone was to blame to a certain extent but it was the unions that put the final nail in the coffin as those same foreign companies that bought our car industry were wary of continuing production here because of the continual threat of strikes.
And remember that despite the fact we had superb car designers the actual build quality of the finished product was often terrible - wasn't it a Rover model that was longer on one side than the other?
Pistom said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
It is because Thatcher's government, in the 1980's, decimated and destroyed every facet of the British Car Industry, with no vision of the future, placing more and more reliance on the 'British Service Industry PLC*' and banks and finance to modernise and shape the future of the country, in their view.
And for balance, before I am accused of being a blinkered militant - the Unions and Union leaders also facilitated that demise, by being greedy, short-sighted, unrealistic buffoons too, helping to cement the death of their own industry, through their ridiculous demands and conditions, galvanised by a lazy, slapdash workforce who couldn't see the future if it had been beaten into them.
Basically, it was a bad show all round, from all concerned, and treated our once-great manufacturing base as an ever-more political and bargaining tool for each side, in order to attain their own agendas, but without realising that they were all guilty of killing it all off, for good.
So now, in recession, we have found, to our detriment, that if we all had have been a little more careful and circumspect during those years - that we might have had a solid manufacturing base to fall back on in these hard times....but instead, we had nothing, because of the greed, stupidity and ignorance of a handful of individuals around 30 years ago.
Damn them all. They condemned us, years ahead of time.
Agreed but it is so much further reaching than this. Thatcher picked up a poisoned chalice but that doesn't let her off the hook. And for balance, before I am accused of being a blinkered militant - the Unions and Union leaders also facilitated that demise, by being greedy, short-sighted, unrealistic buffoons too, helping to cement the death of their own industry, through their ridiculous demands and conditions, galvanised by a lazy, slapdash workforce who couldn't see the future if it had been beaten into them.
Basically, it was a bad show all round, from all concerned, and treated our once-great manufacturing base as an ever-more political and bargaining tool for each side, in order to attain their own agendas, but without realising that they were all guilty of killing it all off, for good.
So now, in recession, we have found, to our detriment, that if we all had have been a little more careful and circumspect during those years - that we might have had a solid manufacturing base to fall back on in these hard times....but instead, we had nothing, because of the greed, stupidity and ignorance of a handful of individuals around 30 years ago.
Damn them all. They condemned us, years ahead of time.
The UK isn't down and out yet though however the mistakes of the past half century don't appear to have taught us much.
Agreed - why oh why, to supposedly intelligent, cogniscant human beings, does history not ever seem to teach us anything? The same old s
t seems to keep repeating itself, to our detriment, time and time again? I despair sometimes!I just have a wee bit of faith and hope left, in some of our smaller and newer 'tech' specialist industries, bless them (like aerospace, F1 and satellite technology) that there is still a modicum of grass-roots British niche talent, who are faithfully grafting ever onwards, despite such seemingly and devastatingly huge mountains to climb.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Agreed - why oh why, to supposedly intelligent, cogniscant human beings, does history not ever seem to teach us anything? The same old s
t seems to keep repeating itself, to our detriment, time and time again? I despair sometimes!Surprisingly true pretty much regarding everything when you think about it.
Firstly there's at least one early 1980's built,and 1970's designed,Jaguar out there( with a few early 1990's type modifications ) that seems to be able to dominate the autobahns compared to the contemporary German opposition.Being that most of that German 'opposition' has either long since gone to the scrap yard or it just isn't quick enough.
As for striking British workers,when all this mattered,the fact is they wouldn't have needed to strike if British working conditions and wages had matched those of German ones in real terms.Remembering also that although we were self sufficient in oil the government did nothing to use that advantage to keep uk oil prices down relative to our competitors like Germany.Which would have helped in regard to our runaway ( price led ) inflation rate which is what was causing and fuelling the continuing wage claims.However that didn't happen because what really happened was that the uk government sacrificed the UK economy to keep the Germans happy in the big EU project because tossers like Heath were scared of them ever kicking off another European war.
So after all those years of anti union bullst we've now arrived at the point where successive governments have de industrialised the country and finally proved that inflation is price led while economic growth is wage led.Which is why we've now got a flat lining economy with wages lagging behind prices.
However the Thatcherites have never let the facts stand in the way of their re writing of history from the view of the victor.
As for striking British workers,when all this mattered,the fact is they wouldn't have needed to strike if British working conditions and wages had matched those of German ones in real terms.Remembering also that although we were self sufficient in oil the government did nothing to use that advantage to keep uk oil prices down relative to our competitors like Germany.Which would have helped in regard to our runaway ( price led ) inflation rate which is what was causing and fuelling the continuing wage claims.However that didn't happen because what really happened was that the uk government sacrificed the UK economy to keep the Germans happy in the big EU project because tossers like Heath were scared of them ever kicking off another European war.
So after all those years of anti union bulls
t we've now arrived at the point where successive governments have de industrialised the country and finally proved that inflation is price led while economic growth is wage led.Which is why we've now got a flat lining economy with wages lagging behind prices.However the Thatcherites have never let the facts stand in the way of their re writing of history from the view of the victor.
skyrover said:
"that'l do" mentality
Labour costs
Crap engines
Crap bodywork
Shoddy Build quality
Lack of forward planning
Militant unions
Overly generous benefits/entitlements
Cheap Eastern Labour
Contempt for the consumer
You've just described 1980s Fiat, and yet they still exist today, heavily based in Italy, and are doing reasonably well.Labour costs
Crap engines
Crap bodywork
Shoddy Build quality
Lack of forward planning
Militant unions
Overly generous benefits/entitlements
Cheap Eastern Labour
Contempt for the consumer
Pistom said:
Thatcher picked up a poisoned chalice but that doesn't let her off the hook.
Yeah, it just isn't trendy to mention Thatcher without denigrating her. All compliments have to be back-handed.As someone who grew up in the shadow of the fiasco that was the Rootes/Chrysler/Talbot Linwood car factory I saw first had what was wrong. A reasonably successful car manufacturer who wanted to expand production in the UK was obliged by the left-wing government of the time to build the factory in an area already renowned for poor industrial relations and a generally workshy labour supply - an area that was hundreds of miles away from their engineering works and parts supply base. The cost of doing so ruined them and rather than close the factory successive left-wing governments let it lumber from one expensive disaster to the other.
These days the companies put under that sort of government pressure would just say 'f*** you' and build it in Easter Europe or China, and most of us would agree it would be the thing to do (ie. not sacrifice your business for the sake of local politics).
The recent INEOS/Falkirk By-Election/Union corruption case shows how much things have changed for the better.
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 26th February 07:43
Chlamydia said:
Google Red Robbo.
It got to the point where the government saw selling them off to foreign companies as the most cost effective solution. Everyone was to blame to a certain extent but it was the unions that put the final nail in the coffin as those same foreign companies that bought our car industry were wary of continuing production here because of the continual threat of strikes.
And remember that despite the fact we had superb car designers the actual build quality of the finished product was often terrible - wasn't it a Rover model that was longer on one side than the other?
Add in that in the days of BMC/British leyland a good vehicle design could be refused production because it would mean the X was sportier than the Y and swould steal sales think VAG or Porsche where the models step up nicely or even Aston and Jaguar when they where part of Ford. BBC said:
"Between 1978 and 1979 Mr Robinson was credited with causing 523 walk-outs at Longbridge, costing an estimated £200m in lost production"
No company would ever be able to survive that, no matter how much money was pumped into it by successive governments. Add to that incredibly inept management and it was only ever going to fail.It got to the point where the government saw selling them off to foreign companies as the most cost effective solution. Everyone was to blame to a certain extent but it was the unions that put the final nail in the coffin as those same foreign companies that bought our car industry were wary of continuing production here because of the continual threat of strikes.
And remember that despite the fact we had superb car designers the actual build quality of the finished product was often terrible - wasn't it a Rover model that was longer on one side than the other?
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