Japanese reliability: is it a myth?
Discussion
I'm currently in the process of buying a new family car for my wife (some kind of 6/7-seat SUV/Crossover or (shudder) possibly an MPV) and not knowing much about the options available here in Canada, I bought a Consumer Reports guide to find out a bit more.
Now, the domestic products are not renowned for their reliability (Dodge, Ford, GM), although GM seem to be improving. To prove the point, I went to view a $40000 Ford that was only a year old and it wouldn't start (granted it was -36C outside) but not overly impressed, especially when my 2004 Chrysler (which is only worth $2000 apparently) starts first time every time!
Perhaps 20 years ago, if you wanted a reliable car to last a long time, you might have been directed towards a German car. Well evidently, German cars aren't as reliable as we were led to believe and anyway too expensive to be an option for us here.
Well good news, Japanese cars are reliable (aren't they?) and pretty good value here too. As you would expect, according to the guide, Toyota are pretty much near the top for reliability, Mazda too but Honda not as good as you might expect and Nissan pretty poor actually.
This is a shame because the new Pathfinder ticks a lot of boxes for us.
http://www.nissan.ca/en/suvs/pathfinder?next=heade...
Best in class fuel economy, plenty of space for passengers and luggage, looks pretty good and very well equipped for the money but according to the guide, in its first year (2013), the least reliable vehicle in its class (131% worse than average reliability)! Unfortunately it doesn't quantify why it was considered the least reliable car in its class.
Conversely, the new Toyota that my MIL bought last year has failed to start on two occasions this winter despite supposedly being one of the most reliable vehicles in its class (no such problems with my 2001 Jeep and 2004 Chrysler)!
I'm not sure whether to rule out the Nissan based on this information or just ignore it. After all, it also says that the Fiat 500 has "much worse than average" reliability (owned one for 3.5 years in England and no problems) and VW are right down the bottom in terms of reliability (owned a 2008 Polo for 2.5 years from new and no problems).
Where do I go if I want a reliable vehicle to last for 8-10 years? Hyundai/Kia or something else? Hyundai certainly have the best warranty (5 years compared to 3 years for most of the others).
Now, the domestic products are not renowned for their reliability (Dodge, Ford, GM), although GM seem to be improving. To prove the point, I went to view a $40000 Ford that was only a year old and it wouldn't start (granted it was -36C outside) but not overly impressed, especially when my 2004 Chrysler (which is only worth $2000 apparently) starts first time every time!
Perhaps 20 years ago, if you wanted a reliable car to last a long time, you might have been directed towards a German car. Well evidently, German cars aren't as reliable as we were led to believe and anyway too expensive to be an option for us here.
Well good news, Japanese cars are reliable (aren't they?) and pretty good value here too. As you would expect, according to the guide, Toyota are pretty much near the top for reliability, Mazda too but Honda not as good as you might expect and Nissan pretty poor actually.
This is a shame because the new Pathfinder ticks a lot of boxes for us.
http://www.nissan.ca/en/suvs/pathfinder?next=heade...
Best in class fuel economy, plenty of space for passengers and luggage, looks pretty good and very well equipped for the money but according to the guide, in its first year (2013), the least reliable vehicle in its class (131% worse than average reliability)! Unfortunately it doesn't quantify why it was considered the least reliable car in its class.
Conversely, the new Toyota that my MIL bought last year has failed to start on two occasions this winter despite supposedly being one of the most reliable vehicles in its class (no such problems with my 2001 Jeep and 2004 Chrysler)!
I'm not sure whether to rule out the Nissan based on this information or just ignore it. After all, it also says that the Fiat 500 has "much worse than average" reliability (owned one for 3.5 years in England and no problems) and VW are right down the bottom in terms of reliability (owned a 2008 Polo for 2.5 years from new and no problems).
Where do I go if I want a reliable vehicle to last for 8-10 years? Hyundai/Kia or something else? Hyundai certainly have the best warranty (5 years compared to 3 years for most of the others).
Over the last 10 years, it been the japanese who been at the top in reliability. In over 30 years car ownership, I'd say 90% of the cars I've owned have been german, most have had some sort of problems. I also found the attitude of the manufactures (and some of the dealers) pretty poor when trying to get stuff fixed even under warranty.
Of the japanese cars I've owned, I've had very few problems - two problems I had with Hondas just out of warranty and Honda were fabulous and rectified the faults with no charge/minimal charge. A totally different attitude.
If you look at the stats and reliability is key, I'd stick with the japanese.
I might be tempted by a Land Cruiser next....
Of the japanese cars I've owned, I've had very few problems - two problems I had with Hondas just out of warranty and Honda were fabulous and rectified the faults with no charge/minimal charge. A totally different attitude.
If you look at the stats and reliability is key, I'd stick with the japanese.
I might be tempted by a Land Cruiser next....
No.
Nissans suffer do to dealing with the devil that is Renault and the diesel engines aren't know to be the best.
Stay with petrol engines and they are bomb proof. My 91 mx5 has ticked over to 180,000km and the engine is still silky smooth. Infact the mechanicals will out live the body work but that is where kit car comes in and can build a lightweight car with great mazda mechanicals.
Nissans suffer do to dealing with the devil that is Renault and the diesel engines aren't know to be the best.
Stay with petrol engines and they are bomb proof. My 91 mx5 has ticked over to 180,000km and the engine is still silky smooth. Infact the mechanicals will out live the body work but that is where kit car comes in and can build a lightweight car with great mazda mechanicals.
No myth, however nothing is perfect so be crazy to expect nothing to go wrong.
Ive had a couple of issues go wrong on the lexus (out of warranty) and they looked genuinely shocked and offered to more of less fix it at cost price with them paying about 70% without me even complaining.
The other time I went in to buy a replacement battery for my key fob and they wouldn't let me pay for it!
Ive had a couple of issues go wrong on the lexus (out of warranty) and they looked genuinely shocked and offered to more of less fix it at cost price with them paying about 70% without me even complaining.
The other time I went in to buy a replacement battery for my key fob and they wouldn't let me pay for it!
Negative Creep said:
lexusboy said:
Japanese no. German yes
This
In my experience the Japanese (and to a lesser extent Korean) companies tend to produce genuinely well-engineered cars. The Germans tend to produce decidedly average cars with a thin veneer of quality laid over the top. Having said that, no car is perfect. Anything can go wrong if you're unlucky.
The one year old Ford probably just had a flat battery having sat on the dealers forecourt for way too long.
Japanese cars certainly have a reputation for being more reliable than most but you can find good or bad examples of most makes, my personal experience when something goes wrong on a Japanese car it's probably going to cost more in parts to fix than something built locally.
Japanese cars certainly have a reputation for being more reliable than most but you can find good or bad examples of most makes, my personal experience when something goes wrong on a Japanese car it's probably going to cost more in parts to fix than something built locally.
I've always had Japanese cars and never had anything go wrong with them apart from 1 or 2 sensors.
3 Civic Vti / CRX of various generations
2 Subaru Imprezas (the second one I had for 8 years and 136K miles with no issues)
1 Mazda 6MPS - 3 years, 45K miles, no issues.
My wife has had Hondas and Mazdas for 20 years with no problems.
So the question is ... WHY are Japanese cars so reliable, and why don't other copy them?
3 Civic Vti / CRX of various generations
2 Subaru Imprezas (the second one I had for 8 years and 136K miles with no issues)
1 Mazda 6MPS - 3 years, 45K miles, no issues.
My wife has had Hondas and Mazdas for 20 years with no problems.
So the question is ... WHY are Japanese cars so reliable, and why don't other copy them?
'97 Toyota Corolla G6 bought near new for the wife who had it for 50,000 miles & we then ran it to 140,000 miles being the family slag for the 3 boys to learn to drive in, take junk to the skip & all that.
Other than consumables such as tyres, brake pads & shoes & cambelt, in that time I replaced the front disks & 1 ABS sensor, still on original exhaust clutch etc... Even the aircon was still working & has never been re-gassed.
Never failed to start or complete a journey.
Oh the sunroof failed.
Not a myth for this car at least.
Other than consumables such as tyres, brake pads & shoes & cambelt, in that time I replaced the front disks & 1 ABS sensor, still on original exhaust clutch etc... Even the aircon was still working & has never been re-gassed.
Never failed to start or complete a journey.
Oh the sunroof failed.
Not a myth for this car at least.
Was given a 1992 honda civic Lsi 1.5, was my first car, got rallied everywhere, through fields, dirt track roads. handbrake slides, back wheels on mcdonalds trays for drifting, towing sledges in the snow.
Never checked the oil, hadent been serviced in got knows how long, I crashed it into a river
Dragged it back up onto the road, and drove it 100m up the road and onto a trailer, Had to be scrapped but it despite spending over night in water and taking a heavy front end impact it stall ran fine.
I bought another exact same car, a 1993 civic LSI, drove that for a year then sold it working perfectly.
Bought a BMW e46 3 series, gave heaps of trouble and hated working on it, ABS sensor went. siezed in the hub and snapped off, Front shock bolts siezed and required drilling out. Headgasket blew and left me standing on the m74 for 3 hours, Pretty sure there was something up with the rear subframe. Sold it shoftly after fixing the head gasket,
Bought a mk1 mx5, No problems at all except a Cam angle sensor which was a leaky seal and took 20 minutes to replace, costing £30. It did suffers from rust but that comes with old japaneese cars. Sold it back to the guy i bought it from 2 years previous.
Bought an integra type R, again no problems expect an 02 sensor on the manifold causing the fueling to go a bit wonky, £40 and 20 minutes again and it was fine.
Every japanese car i have had has been fine bar little problems, The one non japanese car was nothing but trouble and that was the "german engineering" myth.
As for modern japanese cars im not to sure, cars are more fragile these days and complicated electronics mean just about any fault has to go to the garage. They may be more reliable than others but with modern cars im not sure.
Never checked the oil, hadent been serviced in got knows how long, I crashed it into a river
Dragged it back up onto the road, and drove it 100m up the road and onto a trailer, Had to be scrapped but it despite spending over night in water and taking a heavy front end impact it stall ran fine.
I bought another exact same car, a 1993 civic LSI, drove that for a year then sold it working perfectly.
Bought a BMW e46 3 series, gave heaps of trouble and hated working on it, ABS sensor went. siezed in the hub and snapped off, Front shock bolts siezed and required drilling out. Headgasket blew and left me standing on the m74 for 3 hours, Pretty sure there was something up with the rear subframe. Sold it shoftly after fixing the head gasket,
Bought a mk1 mx5, No problems at all except a Cam angle sensor which was a leaky seal and took 20 minutes to replace, costing £30. It did suffers from rust but that comes with old japaneese cars. Sold it back to the guy i bought it from 2 years previous.
Bought an integra type R, again no problems expect an 02 sensor on the manifold causing the fueling to go a bit wonky, £40 and 20 minutes again and it was fine.
Every japanese car i have had has been fine bar little problems, The one non japanese car was nothing but trouble and that was the "german engineering" myth.
As for modern japanese cars im not to sure, cars are more fragile these days and complicated electronics mean just about any fault has to go to the garage. They may be more reliable than others but with modern cars im not sure.
No car brand or model is 100% reliable. It is humanly impossible.
But most Japanese brands, like Toyota, consistently for years have come near the top of most UK reliability surveys (e.g. JDPower, Warranty Direct etc.).
German cars are like Swiss trains. Great reputation, but ultimately not as reliable as you think.
But most Japanese brands, like Toyota, consistently for years have come near the top of most UK reliability surveys (e.g. JDPower, Warranty Direct etc.).
German cars are like Swiss trains. Great reputation, but ultimately not as reliable as you think.
Is it a myth generally? Probably not.
Is it something to rely on or a given? Probably not.
My one Jap car to date was not great on this front and only denied total shame by good old Rover dross reliability. Vauxhall and Ford have been better over much higher mileage in each case.
Was also expensive to run, in relative terms.
Is it something to rely on or a given? Probably not.
My one Jap car to date was not great on this front and only denied total shame by good old Rover dross reliability. Vauxhall and Ford have been better over much higher mileage in each case.
Was also expensive to run, in relative terms.
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