RE: Adam 'Rallye' considered
Monday 3rd March 2014
The sporty version of the Vauxhall Adam is likely to follow a light weight and fun formula, rather than go down the high-power VXR route, according to product boss Stuart Harris. Harris said that the chassis in the Adam didn't suit the VXR treatment because the handling became "interesting."
Adam 'Rallye' considered
Hot hatch Adam to be less high power VXR and more pared back 106 Rallye
"I'm pushing to go down the route taken by Peugeot with the 106 Rallye," said Harris, speaking to PistonHeads ahead of the Geneva motor show.
The 106 Rallye, which was successful in the late 90s, of course relied on removing unnecessary weight and improving the driving experience, rather than increasing power.And Vauxhall is currently working on a host of new engines including a turbocharged 1.0 petrol engine that will go into the Adam. This engine is understood to be available in forms that produce more than 100bhp. The current quickest Adam is powered by a 1.4-litre 100bhp petrol capable of 0-60 in 11.5 seconds and has a top speed of 115mph. While the Adam Rallye's main aim will not be impressive performance figures, it is expected to beat the current 1.4. The new 140hp 1.4 turbo confirmed for Geneva would be enough to be going on with, for instance.
If the Adam Rallye is given the go-ahead it could go on sale in 2015.
Meanwhile, Vauxhall is set to launch a new Adam configurator in the coming weeks that will allow any option of colour and trim to be combined. The current configurator has a set of core specifications that have set colour and trim options for items such as the roof, wheels and door mirrors.
Discussion
Strangely after announcing on the last Adam thread that Ive only ever seen a couple.
I was driving to Stratford-upon-Avon and saw 5 of the things.
Whilst walking through the town I saw a black one with huge black wheel and thought that actually looks quite smart, ergh until I saw the tiny, tiny drums at the rear. So Vauxhall is charging a premium sticker price for cheap components nice. I'd still take the Mini.
The only issue with this is the Adam is so expensive in the first place and if they do a 'Rallye' version it will cost a shed load more for what is a very basic chassis etc in fancy clothes.
I was driving to Stratford-upon-Avon and saw 5 of the things.
Whilst walking through the town I saw a black one with huge black wheel and thought that actually looks quite smart, ergh until I saw the tiny, tiny drums at the rear. So Vauxhall is charging a premium sticker price for cheap components nice. I'd still take the Mini.
The only issue with this is the Adam is so expensive in the first place and if they do a 'Rallye' version it will cost a shed load more for what is a very basic chassis etc in fancy clothes.
100bhp and 0-60 in 11.5 for such a small car indicates this is a proper heffer. Turning it into a rallye will probably just line it up with its competitors? I dont think the car is targeted/ suited to enthusiasts style wise so i dont see why calling it a rallye would change that, as only enthusiasts are really bothered about lightweight specials that handle well, the rest of the public would want more power.
lewisf182 said:
100bhp and 0-60 in 11.5 for such a small car indicates this is a proper heffer. Turning it into a rallye will probably just line it up with its competitors? I dont think the car is targeted/ suited to enthusiasts style wise so i dont see why calling it a rallye would change that, as only enthusiasts are really bothered about lightweight specials that handle well, the rest of the public would want more power.
I think you are right. ( ex 106 rallye owner)lewisf182 said:
100bhp and 0-60 in 11.5 for such a small car indicates this is a proper heffer. Turning it into a rallye will probably just line it up with its competitors? I dont think the car is targeted/ suited to enthusiasts style wise so i dont see why calling it a rallye would change that, as only enthusiasts are really bothered about lightweight specials that handle well, the rest of the public would want more power.
I agree, A 108 Rallye would probably do well with a little screamer of an engine or a small torquey turbo like the ecoboost.A 'style' car not so much but I suppose they are just trying to go down the line of the GP Mini's but at least they had go, to go with the weight loss and handling upgrades.
I think I would take a swift sport over a Adam 'Rallye' ignoring the premium rivals like the Mini and Fiat 595 Abarth
What year was the first 205 Rallye? Didn't vauxhall get there first in 1984?
Surely it should be an Adam Sport just like the Nova Sport, most basic version of the car with largest engine in range and a big box of goodies to be bolted on at the dealer on the back seat .
No radio or aircon or electric windows just power and added lightness.
C571SGX was mine I sprinted it, rallied it and rolled it, rebuilt it and started again! Last seen in Tonbridge kent.
Surely it should be an Adam Sport just like the Nova Sport, most basic version of the car with largest engine in range and a big box of goodies to be bolted on at the dealer on the back seat .
No radio or aircon or electric windows just power and added lightness.
C571SGX was mine I sprinted it, rallied it and rolled it, rebuilt it and started again! Last seen in Tonbridge kent.
The glory of the 106 Rallye though isn't just the screaming 8v engine or the superb handling, its about the feedback the car offers through the non-PAS rack, the cable throttle and the feel some brakes. It's so much more than just a stripped out hot hatch. I doubt you could build something as superbly tactile now. Or something as light.
Not forgetting either that whilst we appreciate the 106 Rallye now because your average hot hatch is a woeful stodge-fest, they were slow sellers at the time because buyers were getting more and more interested in superfluous tots and less and less interested in driving.
Not forgetting either that whilst we appreciate the 106 Rallye now because your average hot hatch is a woeful stodge-fest, they were slow sellers at the time because buyers were getting more and more interested in superfluous tots and less and less interested in driving.
lewisf182 said:
100bhp and 0-60 in 11.5 for such a small car indicates this is a proper heffer. Turning it into a rallye will probably just line it up with its competitors? I dont think the car is targeted/ suited to enthusiasts style wise so i dont see why calling it a rallye would change that, as only enthusiasts are really bothered about lightweight specials that handle well, the rest of the public would want more power.
Isn't the problem that there may be a typo in the article?'...Vauxhall is currently working on a host of new engines including a turbocharged 1.0 petrol engine that will go into the Adam. This engine is understood to be available in forms that produce more than 100bhp'
200bhp, surely? If they can only just scrape over 100bhp/litre with forced induction, they may want to stop designing engines. Now 200bhp in a small car with added lightness would be much more like it though the quote about the handling getting 'interesting' with added oomph is a bit of a worry.
currybum said:
Yes it is an interesting experience to drive and much of the “feel” is probably due to woeful NVH and the poor damping. (Drive a modern hot hatch down a bumpy back road and the 106 and see which cars wheels stay in contact with the road).
I would suggest you drive the new Clio, Peugeot or Ford small hot hatches and still describe them as a woeful stodge fest, honestly they are in a different league.
There is a danger at looking back at the “fast” cars we used to own/aspire to as 17-25 year olds with rose tinted glasses, when I was a teenager the Escort Cosworth and 205 GTI were like hyper cars to me.
The NVH is undoubtedly 'poor' in the old hot hatches, no more so than in the Rallyes. But that is of little concern to anyone wanting fun when they drive. It's a byproduct of a low kerb weight. The damping in the Rallyes though, is absolutely superb. Peugeot were the masters of damping in those days. The ride in the 106 Rallye can feel rough and choppy at lower speeds, but when you uncork it and get the car moving, the ride settles down into a responsive and cohesive experience. Suddenly, the spring and damper rates makes sense and the car displays a brilliance in keeping it's wheels down. Hence their reputation for surefooted fun, so long as you keep the throttle in. Their is no doubting that the Rallye ends up as more than the sum of it's parts and would probably receive more praise from critics today than ever before, because it is a stark reminder of how fun cars used to be.I would suggest you drive the new Clio, Peugeot or Ford small hot hatches and still describe them as a woeful stodge fest, honestly they are in a different league.
There is a danger at looking back at the “fast” cars we used to own/aspire to as 17-25 year olds with rose tinted glasses, when I was a teenager the Escort Cosworth and 205 GTI were like hyper cars to me.
The new cars are undoubtedly stodge-fests. Between their 20" wheels, automatic gearboxes, characterless turbo engines, rock hard rides and massive footprints, they have evolved well beyond the size of the average British B road, but are probably better suited to the motorways where they speed most of their lives. As great as say, the new Astra VXR looks, it's got a f
king huge footprint and I couldn't relish pressing that down a single track lane. Furthermore, the newer cars have a huge surfeit of grip to compensate for their lacklustre handling. Not that there would be much to feel with their over-light steering anyway. Yes, it's long been said that the enthusiast is pushing for a return to small, light hot hatches. That would be a treat.
lewisf182 said:
100bhp and 0-60 in 11.5 for such a small car indicates this is a proper heffer.
Indeed. A Mk2 XR2, which never set the world alight and lived in the shadow of the 205 GTi, managed the dash to 60mph in a shade under 8 seconds with 100bhp. 11.5 seconds is pedestrian in comparison.From memory the Mk2 XR2 weighed 850 kilogrammes.
GC8 said:
Indeed. A Mk2 XR2, which never set the world alight and lived in the shadow of the 205 GTi, managed the dash to 60mph in a shade under 8 seconds with 100bhp. 11.5 seconds is pedestrian in comparison.
From memory the Mk2 XR2 weighed 850 kilogrammes.
From memory they had 90 odd bhp and a higher 0-60 than that, more like 9 seconds. From memory the Mk2 XR2 weighed 850 kilogrammes.
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