RE: Chris Harris video: Alfa Romeo 4C
Thursday 6th March 2014
How many cars have been undone by the pronounced crown and unruly surface conditions of UK roads? Quite a few. The most common downfall is ride comfort - vehicles launched on virginal German asphalt that feels sublime regularly fall to pieces on our scabby blacktop.
Chris Harris video: Alfa Romeo 4C
Italy versus Germany as Chris drives the 4C in the UK and asks can it beat the Cayman
The Alfa 4C's dimensions and suspension layout do lend themselves to disturbance by extreme road crown, but the ride comfort in Italy last year was good, so it remained to be seen if that behaviour actually revealed itself.
Would the UK be the 4C's undoing?
And what of the Cayman? Still the best pound-for-pound sports car on earth, or would the Alfa's unassisted steering actually expose the Cayman's electric rack? Would it make the Porsche seem to big and lazy?
We headed off in the lashing rain in search of some answers.
Discussion
I really hoped the 4C would've been a little riot but it seems a bit too much flawed.
Chris, do you think that being badly made, light weight, analog(ish) and with turbo lag the 4C has a bit of a mini F40 character?
Also, do you think that with some tire/suspension work any of that understeer would go away?
Chris, do you think that being badly made, light weight, analog(ish) and with turbo lag the 4C has a bit of a mini F40 character?
Also, do you think that with some tire/suspension work any of that understeer would go away?
Great video, great match. What about Alfa 4C VS. Elise S ? who will win ? they have pretty similar specs, so, on a track and on B-roads, which one will be the best and will bring more fun ?
on another hand, I think for trackdays, the lotus community will be larger than alfa community. And Elise community larger than cayman community as well. Am i wrong ?
on another hand, I think for trackdays, the lotus community will be larger than alfa community. And Elise community larger than cayman community as well. Am i wrong ?
I've seen more than once myself, and they are well made. On the same logic I can bring you examples of multiple Porsches were the fit and finish was far from optimal.
Personally it would be the 4C every time, if you want simply a fast car, there's plenty other options where you can be fast and ride in comfort, ideally you should buy a car like that for your enjoyment and the thrill of driving, who cares if it's less refined, if the gearbox is 0.000001 sec slower or else....heck, I don't believe in the road you can get the difference, and on the circuit the 0.nil of a sec is easily regained by an experienced driver....
Personally it would be the 4C every time, if you want simply a fast car, there's plenty other options where you can be fast and ride in comfort, ideally you should buy a car like that for your enjoyment and the thrill of driving, who cares if it's less refined, if the gearbox is 0.000001 sec slower or else....heck, I don't believe in the road you can get the difference, and on the circuit the 0.nil of a sec is easily regained by an experienced driver....
I prefer underdogs. It's also only 'flawed' next to something clinically precise which in itself is a turn-off for some people. A 4C will be damned good compared to most peoples' daily drivers.
I respect the Porsche but the 4C scores highly for not being the obvious default choice. In absolute terms it'll be a better car than most drivers will ever be able to objectively criticise compared to the Porsche.
I respect the Porsche but the 4C scores highly for not being the obvious default choice. In absolute terms it'll be a better car than most drivers will ever be able to objectively criticise compared to the Porsche.
Fortunately for car manufacturers, 99% of buyers don't drive like Harris so on-limit handling, indeed anything above 80% are largely irrelevant and many people will buy the Alfa on looks and rarity alone so I still see the Alfa flying off the shelves as it looks like sex on wheels. The Cayman doesn't, well not in the same league anyway.
I think personally for me too, after owning a Boxster S which I found to be one of the most boring cars ever at anything below 8 / 10ths, like dancing with a chubby girl, I'd prefer a tramlining, twitching lightweight Alfa fanny magnet every day of the week.
I think personally for me too, after owning a Boxster S which I found to be one of the most boring cars ever at anything below 8 / 10ths, like dancing with a chubby girl, I'd prefer a tramlining, twitching lightweight Alfa fanny magnet every day of the week.
How much is the Cayman S? And I mean comparative finish....also, the Alfa 4C is aimed at people that want economy/have a conscience. We can't be forever driving thirsty 6 cyl engines!
Having said that, I think a 4C with a V6 engine and manual gearbox would be a dammn fine thing. I asked the IR guy @ FIAT (at the motorshow on the first press day) and he categorically told me that there are no plans for a manual gearbox and that the engine is already too powerful.
I suggested that a light and nimble V4 engine would be ideal for this car (specially if it meant a lower price) and he told me that they have so many engine choices, what with the chrysler merger, that a V4 engine would have no space in the marketplace.....however the choice of engines from the Chrysler range sounds like it may be an option....possibly a 2.4 petrol.
Oh and the 4C spider is absolutely gorgeous and I bet, because of its carbon tub, it will be just as stiff with the roof off!
I'm beginning to think that the carbon chassis is ultimately a mistake though. They could have concentrated on other issues without offering a carbon tub that is so compromised in other areas. I mean FFS a car that price and no sat-nav? No cruise control? We all want a fun car, but then I also want something reasonable when I drive down through france to get to the mountain roads!
Make it in alu with a carbon fibre optional tub, mate it with a v6 engine,give it proper rear suspensions and then let's see what car is best and what price point could be offered!
Having said that, I think a 4C with a V6 engine and manual gearbox would be a dammn fine thing. I asked the IR guy @ FIAT (at the motorshow on the first press day) and he categorically told me that there are no plans for a manual gearbox and that the engine is already too powerful.
I suggested that a light and nimble V4 engine would be ideal for this car (specially if it meant a lower price) and he told me that they have so many engine choices, what with the chrysler merger, that a V4 engine would have no space in the marketplace.....however the choice of engines from the Chrysler range sounds like it may be an option....possibly a 2.4 petrol.
Oh and the 4C spider is absolutely gorgeous and I bet, because of its carbon tub, it will be just as stiff with the roof off!
I'm beginning to think that the carbon chassis is ultimately a mistake though. They could have concentrated on other issues without offering a carbon tub that is so compromised in other areas. I mean FFS a car that price and no sat-nav? No cruise control? We all want a fun car, but then I also want something reasonable when I drive down through france to get to the mountain roads!
Make it in alu with a carbon fibre optional tub, mate it with a v6 engine,give it proper rear suspensions and then let's see what car is best and what price point could be offered!
Edited by buellboy on Wednesday 5th March 21:16
I can understand the desire for something different, but the Porsche is the default choice for a reason - it's so bloody good! If Porsche hadn't been so successful, perhaps it would be them that are seen as the interesting or alternative option, for people who are willing to put up with 2nd best in the spirit of individualism?
In any case, both fantastic cars and I look forward to seeing a 4C on the open road
In any case, both fantastic cars and I look forward to seeing a 4C on the open road
revgrectifier said:
menoy said:
Haven't heard that re. the 4C before?... or is it just a stereotypical Italian = shoddy comment?
I'm italian myself mate... If you see one in person you'd understand. Also, many reviewers say that in the interior it doesn't feel like a car of that price at all.I'm English, doesn't by default make me an authority on Jaguar!
Enricogto said:
I've seen more than once myself, and they are well made. On the same logic I can bring you examples of multiple Porsches were the fit and finish was far from optimal.
Personally it would be the 4C every time, if you want simply a fast car, there's plenty other options where you can be fast and ride in comfort, ideally you should buy a car like that for your enjoyment and the thrill of driving, who cares if it's less refined, if the gearbox is 0.000001 sec slower or else....heck, I don't believe in the road you can get the difference, and on the circuit the 0.nil of a sec is easily regained by an experienced driver....
They are nowhere near those of the Porsche though, and for a guy searching a car in that segment that probably counts. BTW you've misunderstood my comment - bad quality interior doesn't mean I want the car any less. Probably it makes it even cooler because it shapes a character. I love the 4C.Personally it would be the 4C every time, if you want simply a fast car, there's plenty other options where you can be fast and ride in comfort, ideally you should buy a car like that for your enjoyment and the thrill of driving, who cares if it's less refined, if the gearbox is 0.000001 sec slower or else....heck, I don't believe in the road you can get the difference, and on the circuit the 0.nil of a sec is easily regained by an experienced driver....
I've said it before on here, and I'll say it again ... The 4C looks lovely - like a 'junior Ferrari', if you will - but it's just tooooo expensive for something with a small 4cyl engine in it. They need to lop a good £10k off the price or stick a n/a V6 in it so it can sound as good as it looks and be a credible alternative to its similarly-priced rival from Porsche.
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