Future of the Motor Trade?
Discussion
Been giving this a lot of thought recently - the motor trade is looking decidedly old fashioned in the way business is conducted and despite some clunky attempts to take it online, it's not really changed at all; in spite of peoples buying habits changing, with finance on new cars becoming more and more popular.
I'm interested in people's opinions on how it could be changed to make the buying process slicker than it is today.
I'd rather it didn't turn in to a slagging off of sales people, as that gets done to death on a daily basis - I'm more interested in how you would ideally like the car buying/selling transaction to go?
I'm interested in people's opinions on how it could be changed to make the buying process slicker than it is today.
I'd rather it didn't turn in to a slagging off of sales people, as that gets done to death on a daily basis - I'm more interested in how you would ideally like the car buying/selling transaction to go?
Unlike new cars or any other new product, used cars are all unique, and the most popular thing we buy second hand and almost certainly subject to the most wear and tear.
They are hugely complex mechanical items that can and often do go wrong.
Since the advent of the internet everyone has an idea of value these days, so margins are squeezed at both ends, making prep almost impossible to afford.
No idea about an answer to your question but just a snippet of thoughts that make this market unique and why I can't see it ever being modern and easy like ordering a printer cartridge from Amazon.
They are hugely complex mechanical items that can and often do go wrong.
Since the advent of the internet everyone has an idea of value these days, so margins are squeezed at both ends, making prep almost impossible to afford.
No idea about an answer to your question but just a snippet of thoughts that make this market unique and why I can't see it ever being modern and easy like ordering a printer cartridge from Amazon.
Should add some new car dealers are trying to modernise.
BMW has product genius's these days.
The idea being like Apple, people who can tell you all about the product even do a test drive. These genius's are not on commission and don't sell cars, so no pressure from a salesman.
However as soon as the customer says, how much is this a month? - A question with an infinite amount of answers. Or how much is my car worth? a very tricky subject that needs to be dealt with in the right way - "right" will be unique for every customer. You will still need a sales person, but at least BMW seem to be exploring this subject.
BMW has product genius's these days.
The idea being like Apple, people who can tell you all about the product even do a test drive. These genius's are not on commission and don't sell cars, so no pressure from a salesman.
However as soon as the customer says, how much is this a month? - A question with an infinite amount of answers. Or how much is my car worth? a very tricky subject that needs to be dealt with in the right way - "right" will be unique for every customer. You will still need a sales person, but at least BMW seem to be exploring this subject.
I agree, although increasingly people are looking to have less and less face to face interaction when it comes to buying things, and the car market is bucking this trend, but the internet has already changed the face of it massively.
As an example, we have a retail and 'fleet'(broker) team; the broker guys are seeing an increase in sales of over 100% year on year, where as the retail side is either static or showing a very small increase.
You've only got to read a few threads on here to see people are buying more and more through brokers today, to inadvertently cut out the dealer and to get some perceived value - I just think if retailers don't react reasonably quickly they'll soon be running out of customers!
Obviously with used cars it can be a bit harder, but again the likes of WBAC are taking this element away from the dealers, so their 'services' are becoming less and less relevant.
As an example, we have a retail and 'fleet'(broker) team; the broker guys are seeing an increase in sales of over 100% year on year, where as the retail side is either static or showing a very small increase.
You've only got to read a few threads on here to see people are buying more and more through brokers today, to inadvertently cut out the dealer and to get some perceived value - I just think if retailers don't react reasonably quickly they'll soon be running out of customers!
Obviously with used cars it can be a bit harder, but again the likes of WBAC are taking this element away from the dealers, so their 'services' are becoming less and less relevant.
kentmotorcompany said:
Should add some new car dealers are trying to modernise.
BMW has product genius's these days.
The idea being like Apple, people who can tell you all about the product even do a test drive. These genius's are not on commission and don't sell cars, so no pressure from a salesman.
However as soon as the customer says, how much is this a month? - A question with an infinite amount of answers. Or how much is my car worth? a very tricky subject that needs to be dealt with in the right way - "right" will be unique for every customer. You will still need a sales person, but at least BMW seem to be exploring this subject.
All of the main prestige brands are giving this a go at the moment, although it'll still depend on the quality of the dealer and the quality of the staff as to what level of service people will get. BMW has product genius's these days.
The idea being like Apple, people who can tell you all about the product even do a test drive. These genius's are not on commission and don't sell cars, so no pressure from a salesman.
However as soon as the customer says, how much is this a month? - A question with an infinite amount of answers. Or how much is my car worth? a very tricky subject that needs to be dealt with in the right way - "right" will be unique for every customer. You will still need a sales person, but at least BMW seem to be exploring this subject.
It was actually this that made me start questioning it - do people really want to deal with someone who isn't going to sell them something? I still believe that customers expect to get 'sold' to and actually enjoy this part of the game!
It's a really interesting question! It's something i keep mulling over.
Only a small minority want customer service in transportation matters. Punters vote with their wallets and economy airlines, sardine tin ferrys, '90s rolling stock trains (refitted for max numbers) and diesel econoboxes rein supreme. So i think cheaper has to win over service.
Tying up capital is at least frowned upon and frequently silly these days, so a rental or service type model would win over a more traditional purchase.
Cars can and do break but trips to the garage are pretty horrible for the average punter - they have to take a morning off all so they can have their wallet assaulted. I think fungible vehicles would tie in well with the rental model. It would also help iron out the cash flow kinks, keeping things more consistent.
Cleaning is a small thing everyone likes the benefit of but few are willing to shell out on. Free and frequent preperation would go down well.
So basically i see a main market for maybe 2 brands of car with maybe 6 models a piece. Niche brands and models would of course still exist but i'm thinking "Apple & Samsung" applied to cars here.
You'd pay 1 price, monthly. It'd include everything, tax, insurance, maintenance, etc. Like your gas bill it would vary according to use and provider. Like your insurance it would vary according to the costs you inflict on the provider.
So about as bleak as possible to imagine for a petrol head. I hope i'm wrong but everything's moving in the wrong direction.
Only a small minority want customer service in transportation matters. Punters vote with their wallets and economy airlines, sardine tin ferrys, '90s rolling stock trains (refitted for max numbers) and diesel econoboxes rein supreme. So i think cheaper has to win over service.
Tying up capital is at least frowned upon and frequently silly these days, so a rental or service type model would win over a more traditional purchase.
Cars can and do break but trips to the garage are pretty horrible for the average punter - they have to take a morning off all so they can have their wallet assaulted. I think fungible vehicles would tie in well with the rental model. It would also help iron out the cash flow kinks, keeping things more consistent.
Cleaning is a small thing everyone likes the benefit of but few are willing to shell out on. Free and frequent preperation would go down well.
So basically i see a main market for maybe 2 brands of car with maybe 6 models a piece. Niche brands and models would of course still exist but i'm thinking "Apple & Samsung" applied to cars here.
You'd pay 1 price, monthly. It'd include everything, tax, insurance, maintenance, etc. Like your gas bill it would vary according to use and provider. Like your insurance it would vary according to the costs you inflict on the provider.
So about as bleak as possible to imagine for a petrol head. I hope i'm wrong but everything's moving in the wrong direction.
Awesome subject this.
It is of course likely to end up in fights and get locked !
My take on it is this.
I think the model is broken. I know a lot of people, myself included, who actively and intensely dislike the car buying process. Many, many people go into a showroom not because they want to, but because they don't feel they have a choice. Many, many people are scared they are going to get ripped off. This is why car salesmen complain so much about customers. Customers disrespect them because they instinctively don't trust them.
The dealers all regard it as a game. They have a margin and the "game is on" when a client wants to buy a car - the game being "how little of the margin can I give away?" and "how can I get the client to pay more than he really should do?". Plus the old favourite of "how many worthless but highly profitable add-ons can I sucker the client into buying?"
Dealers will no doubt have lots of statistics telling them that far from being dissatisfied, their customers are all delighted to be overcharged for what they receive and to pay for the utterly superfluous glass and steel palace that passes for a car showroom these days.
I think there should be a better way. But Im not sure what it is. The whole damn car buying edifice is so huge that dismantling the monster for a better model seems too big a job to me.
So I guess we are stuck with it.
The dealer really, really does not care about me. So i don't care about them. I will continue to exploit any dealer I can find and then buy the car from Drive the deal.
It is of course likely to end up in fights and get locked !
My take on it is this.
I think the model is broken. I know a lot of people, myself included, who actively and intensely dislike the car buying process. Many, many people go into a showroom not because they want to, but because they don't feel they have a choice. Many, many people are scared they are going to get ripped off. This is why car salesmen complain so much about customers. Customers disrespect them because they instinctively don't trust them.
The dealers all regard it as a game. They have a margin and the "game is on" when a client wants to buy a car - the game being "how little of the margin can I give away?" and "how can I get the client to pay more than he really should do?". Plus the old favourite of "how many worthless but highly profitable add-ons can I sucker the client into buying?"
Dealers will no doubt have lots of statistics telling them that far from being dissatisfied, their customers are all delighted to be overcharged for what they receive and to pay for the utterly superfluous glass and steel palace that passes for a car showroom these days.
I think there should be a better way. But Im not sure what it is. The whole damn car buying edifice is so huge that dismantling the monster for a better model seems too big a job to me.
So I guess we are stuck with it.
The dealer really, really does not care about me. So i don't care about them. I will continue to exploit any dealer I can find and then buy the car from Drive the deal.
The auctions should just inspect every car thoroughly and warranty them. Then sell cars online direct to the public with every known fault and all information about the vehicle shared at online auctions.
This way the public can directly get the best deals from auctions and know exactly what they are getting with peace of mind when they drive away. The same rights and benefits as buying from a dealer but direct from an auction.
I think trade ins are probably less lucrative now with many companies who will buy vehicles instead and auctions gradually opening up more to the public by selling inspected and warranted cars directly to them is the next logical step. Whether the auction houses are doing this already in other countries or here somewhere or whether they would not do it because it will annoy the dealers I don't know. It's just an idea and I'm not in the trade.
This way the public can directly get the best deals from auctions and know exactly what they are getting with peace of mind when they drive away. The same rights and benefits as buying from a dealer but direct from an auction.
I think trade ins are probably less lucrative now with many companies who will buy vehicles instead and auctions gradually opening up more to the public by selling inspected and warranted cars directly to them is the next logical step. Whether the auction houses are doing this already in other countries or here somewhere or whether they would not do it because it will annoy the dealers I don't know. It's just an idea and I'm not in the trade.
Edited by iloveboost on Friday 7th March 23:13
With electric cars doesn't this take the risk out nearly totally?
All you have to worry about are brakes and suspension and AC condenser.... The batteries are warrantied and have a rough life so you can do the maths re how long they will last and how much is a new set of batteries. An electric motor for a vehicle eg Tesla easily 400k miles.
So the real question for Motor traders is once Electric cars like the i3 (electric only) and Tesla become mainstream there will never be that moment again when you take your car into the garage tell them you have a problem the garage breaths in through puckers lips that's going to be a big job could be expensive.
Heck has anyone seen the annual and bi annual service schedule of the Zoe?
Check screen fluid level
Check wiper blade rubber
Check tyre tread depth
Um there is nothing else to check
. Still they want best part of £200 for the privilege.
All you have to worry about are brakes and suspension and AC condenser.... The batteries are warrantied and have a rough life so you can do the maths re how long they will last and how much is a new set of batteries. An electric motor for a vehicle eg Tesla easily 400k miles.
So the real question for Motor traders is once Electric cars like the i3 (electric only) and Tesla become mainstream there will never be that moment again when you take your car into the garage tell them you have a problem the garage breaths in through puckers lips that's going to be a big job could be expensive.
Heck has anyone seen the annual and bi annual service schedule of the Zoe?
Check screen fluid level
Check wiper blade rubber
Check tyre tread depth
Um there is nothing else to check
. Still they want best part of £200 for the privilege. The UK motor trade is run by old men for old men and women.
Fewer and fewer younger people are buying cars because of low wages, cr*p jobs, stricter driving tests, fashionable cycling, better public transport and the Web.
That is why the motor trade has changed little in decades.
The supply of cars and vans is unlikely to change significantly while the pool of younger demand is drying up like a puddle in the sun.
Fewer and fewer younger people are buying cars because of low wages, cr*p jobs, stricter driving tests, fashionable cycling, better public transport and the Web.
That is why the motor trade has changed little in decades.
The supply of cars and vans is unlikely to change significantly while the pool of younger demand is drying up like a puddle in the sun.
toppstuff said:
The dealers all regard it as a game. They have a margin and the "game is on" when a client wants to buy a car - the game being "how little of the margin can I give away?" and "how can I get the client to pay more than he really should do?".
As always, there are two sides - the retailer advertises a car for £X, but because it's a car and not a TV or an Ikea wardrobe, the customer then expects to walk in to the retailer and pay £X - £Y for it and the dealer has to choose whether or not to accept this.The game exists because the customer wants to play it - the dealer would happily not play if every customer expected to pay the asking price.
I think the OP really has a point. I've been driving for 20 years now. In that time I've owned a grand total of eight cars. Two of those cars, I ran for five years and then six years consecutively. I purchased all these cars second hand, privately or through auction, until recently, I bought two brand new cars from a Ford dealer. It's taken me a long time to get in the financial position to do this, and I am quite pleased that I can. As an experience though, I do think it can be improved. I know the sales team are getting a commission, but a small part of me wanted to get this down to as small a margin as possible. It boils down to me being tight, I realise that. I ended up doing a 700 mile round trip in a day to buy the car I wanted from a dealer down south in order to save £2500.
If the Apple model was implemented, then I'd have no choice but to pay the sticker price and that would be that. It would save time on shopping around.
If the Apple model was implemented, then I'd have no choice but to pay the sticker price and that would be that. It would save time on shopping around.
ShaunTheSheep said:
You'd pay 1 price, monthly. It'd include everything, tax, insurance, maintenance, etc. Like your gas bill it would vary according to use and provider. Like your insurance it would vary according to the costs you inflict on the provider.
So about as bleak as possible to imagine for a petrol head. I hope i'm wrong but everything's moving in the wrong direction.
So about as bleak as possible to imagine for a petrol head. I hope i'm wrong but everything's moving in the wrong direction.
This is already available, for example Zenith's scheme.
jamiem555 said:
If the Apple model was implemented, then I'd have no choice but to pay the sticker price and that would be that. It would save time on shopping around.
For new cars I don't know why we need dealers. What's the point of dealing with a middle man, what additional value do they bring? Manufacturers should sell direct to the public, the selling price should be transparent - eg we should know what profit the manufacturer is making on their goods. Everyone should then pay the exact same sticker price, no negotiating. I think only then would the public feel comfortable that they aren't being ripped off.
The motor trade could then exist for the second hand market where bartering could take place.
Tesla is already taking this route - direct sales to the public, no franchised dealership network. I think its the future.
The motor trade could then exist for the second hand market where bartering could take place.
Tesla is already taking this route - direct sales to the public, no franchised dealership network. I think its the future.
NPI said:
That's a big part of why the industry tries so hard to get people into PCPs. It doesn't seem to occur to people to haggle on a PCP deal in the way they do with cash or HP.
That's something I've never realised. I bought my Focus ST cash and I took out a small amount of finance on the wifes Fiesta Titanium. I didn't need to entertain the PCP on offer. I was happy with the deal I got on both cars.EK993 said:
For new cars I don't know why we need dealers. What's the point of dealing with a middle man, what additional value do they bring? Manufacturers should sell direct to the public, the selling price should be transparent - eg we should know what profit the manufacturer is making on their goods. Everyone should then pay the exact same sticker price, no negotiating. I think only then would the public feel comfortable that they aren't being ripped off.
The motor trade could then exist for the second hand market where bartering could take place.
Tesla is already taking this route - direct sales to the public, no franchised dealership network. I think its the future.
When Apple launches a driverless car in the 2020s, that is what will happen. An Apple iCar sold through an Apple iDealership.The motor trade could then exist for the second hand market where bartering could take place.
Tesla is already taking this route - direct sales to the public, no franchised dealership network. I think its the future.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff