London to ban pre-2005 cars?

[Lowtimer]

Seems politically a bit unlikely Autocar thinks it's a runner, anyway:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/london-...

[wildcat45]

April 1 is a few weeks away. Maybe it got published early by mistake.

[Dave Hedgehog]

the EU are threatening massive fines (100s of mill) for not meeting emission targets, and taking into account most of the TFL decision makers, london assembly etc are tree hugging beigists i bet this does go through, especially as they already have the infrastructure in place to enforce it

EU2 petrol cars pass the current emission fad but only EU6 oil burners do

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Saturday 8th March 09:48

[cb31]

Just ban the smelly old taxis and buses, they're always belching out smoke.

[wildcat45]

Stuff like this is fodder for oddballs like UKIP and the Mail.

[Riley Blue]

It's a city FF'sS, if people want cleaner air, go to the countryside.

[Ozzie Osmond]

cb31 said:

Just ban the smelly old taxis and buses, they're always belching out smoke.

Have you ever been to London? Because no, they're not.

London has had a "low emissions" zone for commercial vehicles for years. Some of the buses are even hybrids.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx

It works a bit like the Congestion Charge but in a much bigger area covering the whole of central London. You can drive an old smoker in it if you want to but the charge is between £500 and £1,000 per day. (Half price if you pay promptly)

[ColinM50]

Well London's banned older vans and lorries that don't meet their emissions levels so why not cars next? What's not to like? I want my grandkids to have working lungs and anything that helps achieve that must be good.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Riley Blue said:

It's a city FF's, if people want cleaner air, go to the countryside.

^^^^ Utterly out of touch. There have been "smokeless zones" since the 1950s when winter "Smog" was killing thousands. Over the decades most buildings in London have had to be cleaned from top to bottom to get the soot off them. Houses of Parliament, Westminster Abbey, Nelson's Column, St Paul's Cathedral, High Court etc etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog

[Ozzie Osmond]

ColinM50 said:

Well London's banned older vans and lorries that don't meet their emissions levels so why not cars next? What's not to like? I want my grandkids to have working lungs and anything that helps achieve that must be good.

I think some people are going to get a nasty surprise when the government's review of Vehicle Excise Duty (annual Tax Disc) is concluded. At the moment older cars effectively get a big discount. Can't see that lasting very long. The "worst polluters should pay the most" argument is just too tempting for politicians. But don't expect any change until after the election.....

[spaximus]

ColinM50 said:

Well London's banned older vans and lorries that don't meet their emissions levels so why not cars next? What's not to like? I want my grandkids to have working lungs and anything that helps achieve that must be good.

I love attitudes like this. You drive a sabre Royale, do you think that will be safe? Do you think that "its okay it's in London"?
I live in Bristol and they want to emulate everything London does, however they are some time behind. Older cars are not the issue as the volume of cars which do not meet the regs will diminish year on year, the problem is the virtual girdlock that has been engineered by trafic light phasing for example which causes the pollution, to allow them to push these sort of things through.
As some one else said, the stakeholders are all the usual suspect band of car haters and the tree huggers with the only group being the SMMT who are not that good at lobbying on subjects like this as guess what, if they force people to buy new cars, then that is good for their members.
We can do lots more on emmissions on other areas of live but cars are the easy one to target, as they know for the majority, there is no alternative.

[the_lone_wolf]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Riley Blue said:

It's a city FF's, if people want cleaner air, go to the countryside.

^^^^ Utterly out of touch. There have been "smokeless zones" since the 1950s when winter "Smog" was killing thousands. Over the decades most buildings in London have had to be cleaned from top to bottom to get the soot off them. Houses of Parliament, Westminster Abbey, Nelson's Column, St Paul's Cathedral, High Court etc etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog

I don't think thats out of touch at all, I've no doubt London is a lot cleaner than it used to be but compared to the countryside it's still nasty...

As someone that works on or near the roads most of the time, the only place I've been that can leave a visible, tactile black slime/mist/coating on the equipment and operator is London. Frankly it's disgusting and on getting home all I want to do is shower to get it off, I know I'll be blowing black crap out my nose for a few days. And that's not just me, everyone in the team gets the same thing...

My sister moved there some years back, she had minor respiratory issues as a child, all these have returned some twenty years later and got worse since she moved, the only time she gets a break is when she comes out to the country - she loves the city but her and her partner's long term plans will involve moving out of it...

[Ozzie Osmond]

the_lone_wolf said:

As someone that works on or near the roads most of the time, the only place I've been that can leave a visible, tactile black slime/mist/coating on the equipment and operator is London.

Yes, London is still a grubby place. Especially if you travel on the Underground. The black dirt that gets in your nose is IIRC mainly brake dust from the trains. A lot of human skin calls too!

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=...

Back in the day Fleet Street had some of the worst lead pollution, due to the combination of constant traffic jams and lead from the old printing presses.

[Riley Blue]

the_lone_wolf said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

Riley Blue said:

It's a city FF's, if people want cleaner air, go to the countryside.

^^^^ Utterly out of touch. There have been "smokeless zones" since the 1950s when winter "Smog" was killing thousands. Over the decades most buildings in London have had to be cleaned from top to bottom to get the soot off them. Houses of Parliament, Westminster Abbey, Nelson's Column, St Paul's Cathedral, High Court etc etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog

I don't think thats out of touch at all, I've no doubt London is a lot cleaner than it used to be but compared to the countryside it's still nasty...

As someone that works on or near the roads most of the time, the only place I've been that can leave a visible, tactile black slime/mist/coating on the equipment and operator is London. Frankly it's disgusting and on getting home all I want to do is shower to get it off, I know I'll be blowing black crap out my nose for a few days. And that's not just me, everyone in the team gets the same thing...

My sister moved there some years back, she had minor respiratory issues as a child, all these have returned some twenty years later and got worse since she moved, the only time she gets a break is when she comes out to the country - she loves the city but her and her partner's long term plans will involve moving out of it...

Exactly. I remember London smogs and I'm fully aware that the air on London is cleaner than in the 1950s but it will never been as clean in the countryside. That's why I don't live in a city.

[NomduJour]

Thread already running

[cb31]

Ozzie Osmond said:

cb31 said:

Just ban the smelly old taxis and buses, they're always belching out smoke.

Have you ever been to London? Because no, they're not.

London has had a "low emissions" zone for commercial vehicles for years. Some of the buses are even hybrids.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/default.aspx

It works a bit like the Congestion Charge but in a much bigger area covering the whole of central London. You can drive an old smoker in it if you want to but the charge is between £500 and £1,000 per day. (Half price if you pay promptly)

I live in central London so yes I have been, have you? Go and stand next to a black cab stand or a bus station and report back what the air was like to breath.

There are some clean buses but there are also plenty of old ones around as well as prehistoric black cabs. I am all for cleaner air in cities but think they should sort out their vehicles first.

[Herman Toothrot]

All a load of st this type of taxation / fines / regulation. Surely the overnight fix is just ditch all taxes / fines / charges and just add them all to the price at the pump directly bill those that consume the most fuel, if the price of a tank went up 50% over night I bet the number of cehicles on the roads would drop dramatically.

[Mr Gear]

Yes, true to some extent, but emissions are more than co2. Never mind global warming... in a city like London, emissions from diesel engines are directly harmful to passers by. Things like particulates and no2 cause all sorts of respiratory problems.

I'm all in favour of getting rid of dirty old diesel taxis. This is 2014... why are they not petrol hybrids?

[BlueMR2]

Mr Gear said:

Yes, true to some extent, but emissions are more than co2. Never mind global warming... in a city like London, emissions from diesel engines are directly harmful to passers by. Things like particulates and no2 cause all sorts of respiratory problems.

I'm all in favour of getting rid of dirty old diesel taxis. This is 2014... why are they not petrol hybrids?

When they introduced the new London taxi it was a small petrol engine.

I said this was an indicator of future policy but people here prefer to argue the non points rather than what matters.

[mybrainhurts]

Ah, yes, good ol' TfL again...

Turnips fecking London...