Sports cars of the future
Discussion
I have been wondering recently what the future of the sports car is. As the price of fuel is constantly increasing, speed and traffic enforcement becoming more prevalent and the roads becoming more congested, is the day of driving a performance car for pleasure coming to an end?
A lot of people have said to me recently I am stupid for wanting a sports car in the near future (when I graduate and start to get paid!) as the maximum limit is 70mph and all the usual drivel. However it made me think, as limits are being reduced everywhere and the driver is being monitored and scrutinised more and more, will a car just be used to get from A to B? Will you no longer able to safely stretch the legs of a sports car on a quiet clear day? Will there be great looking cars but with tiny low output engines as there simply is no point to them anymore? And if so, where does this leave the car companies as they use their performance models as the halo cars for the brand.
I look forward to some optimism! As I am all out
A lot of people have said to me recently I am stupid for wanting a sports car in the near future (when I graduate and start to get paid!) as the maximum limit is 70mph and all the usual drivel. However it made me think, as limits are being reduced everywhere and the driver is being monitored and scrutinised more and more, will a car just be used to get from A to B? Will you no longer able to safely stretch the legs of a sports car on a quiet clear day? Will there be great looking cars but with tiny low output engines as there simply is no point to them anymore? And if so, where does this leave the car companies as they use their performance models as the halo cars for the brand.
I look forward to some optimism! As I am all out
IMO...
In your lifetime - there will not be a need for a driver.
It will just be a safe mode of transport.
Google etc - aren't spending money on maximising driver enjoyment - it is being spent on making the driving redundant.
The population of the planet is rising at an alarming rate. Either we all get used to driving at 15mph on our motorways, or we find a better way of getting around.
Track days, racing etc - will be an expensive hobby.
In your lifetime - there will not be a need for a driver.
It will just be a safe mode of transport.
Google etc - aren't spending money on maximising driver enjoyment - it is being spent on making the driving redundant.
The population of the planet is rising at an alarming rate. Either we all get used to driving at 15mph on our motorways, or we find a better way of getting around.
Track days, racing etc - will be an expensive hobby.
Troubleatmill said:
IMO...
In your lifetime - there will not be a need for a driver.
It will just be a safe mode of transport.
Google etc - aren't spending money on maximising driver enjoyment - it is being spent on making the driving redundant.
The population of the planet is rising at an alarming rate. Either we all get used to driving at 15mph on our motorways, or we find a better way of getting around.
Track days, racing etc - will be an expensive hobby.
So are the car companies not foolish for supporting what will ultimately lead to their end. If cars drive themselves then people will need less cars which will lead to lower profits. They surely want to sell as many cars as possible and if there is no driving pleasure then it is just a tin canIn your lifetime - there will not be a need for a driver.
It will just be a safe mode of transport.
Google etc - aren't spending money on maximising driver enjoyment - it is being spent on making the driving redundant.
The population of the planet is rising at an alarming rate. Either we all get used to driving at 15mph on our motorways, or we find a better way of getting around.
Track days, racing etc - will be an expensive hobby.
Despite fuel prices and emission legislations I actually think the opposite is true. Here is some food for thought...
1) fuel prices and emissions have been a constantly growing pressure, being thrust to the forefront of car design most notably back in the 70's. Still, sportscars have lived through it, and got consistently much faster and more capable.
2) the rich are getting richer. Now the emerging markets are joining the party it's easier to find enough buyers for £1m hypercars, a market that hardly existed before. In fact all lux sportscars are being pushed up in price and performance to keep the exclusivity but pull in more profit. There is definitely a growing demand.
3) Technology always seems to have an answer to the problem given enough motivation. The new breed of hypercars have emerged that achieve 99g and 200mph+ and staggering acceleration. Who would have betted that was possible even 5 years ago? and all of a sudden 4 came along at the same time.... (P1, 918, LaF & C-X75)
Top Gear a few years ago finished a series with a vision of doom for fast cars (Clarkson driving a V12 Vantage). Don't believe it. It will only get better. ;-)
1) fuel prices and emissions have been a constantly growing pressure, being thrust to the forefront of car design most notably back in the 70's. Still, sportscars have lived through it, and got consistently much faster and more capable.
2) the rich are getting richer. Now the emerging markets are joining the party it's easier to find enough buyers for £1m hypercars, a market that hardly existed before. In fact all lux sportscars are being pushed up in price and performance to keep the exclusivity but pull in more profit. There is definitely a growing demand.
3) Technology always seems to have an answer to the problem given enough motivation. The new breed of hypercars have emerged that achieve 99g and 200mph+ and staggering acceleration. Who would have betted that was possible even 5 years ago? and all of a sudden 4 came along at the same time.... (P1, 918, LaF & C-X75)
Top Gear a few years ago finished a series with a vision of doom for fast cars (Clarkson driving a V12 Vantage). Don't believe it. It will only get better. ;-)
Enforcement is typically via (semi-)static cameras. There's no money for real enforcement.
Given the cost of these mobile cameras you don't want to place them on nice driving roads that maybe see 20 cars an hour when you could site them on an A road getting 20 cars a minute.
If you want to speed, just go off the beaten track.
That said, with a nice car, you don't need to break the speed limit. Squeezing the throttle is numb and boring.
Splicing together 3 corners so that the car feels purposeful and composed but never rushed as it transitions... Now we're talking. Even though vmax might be 45mph!
Given the cost of these mobile cameras you don't want to place them on nice driving roads that maybe see 20 cars an hour when you could site them on an A road getting 20 cars a minute.
If you want to speed, just go off the beaten track.
That said, with a nice car, you don't need to break the speed limit. Squeezing the throttle is numb and boring.
Splicing together 3 corners so that the car feels purposeful and composed but never rushed as it transitions... Now we're talking. Even though vmax might be 45mph!
I think a lot depends on the next MX-5 mix from Honda and Alfa.
It'll tell the makers whether there's still demand for a traditonal manual mid-power sports car.
I'd quite like to porsche and the other big boys build a bit of a retro back to basics model.
Forget the top speed and the electrics.
Just a moderate engine, decent chassis and good manual gearbox.
It'll tell the makers whether there's still demand for a traditonal manual mid-power sports car.
I'd quite like to porsche and the other big boys build a bit of a retro back to basics model.
Forget the top speed and the electrics.
Just a moderate engine, decent chassis and good manual gearbox.
ShaunTheSheep said:
Enforcement is typically via (semi-)static cameras. There's no money for real enforcement.
Given the cost of these mobile cameras you don't want to place them on nice driving roads that maybe see 20 cars an hour when you could site them on an A road getting 20 cars a minute.
If you want to speed, just go off the beaten track.
That said, with a nice car, you don't need to break the speed limit. Squeezing the throttle is numb and boring.
Splicing together 3 corners so that the car feels purposeful and composed but never rushed as it transitions... Now we're talking. Even though vmax might be 45mph!
I agree with what your saying, hopefully all these driver aids such as lane departure will increase safety and allow the roads to free up without nannying enforcement. I read on another thread that the EU were looking to enforce all vehicles with GPS speed limiters. I believe using the Galileo satelliteGiven the cost of these mobile cameras you don't want to place them on nice driving roads that maybe see 20 cars an hour when you could site them on an A road getting 20 cars a minute.
If you want to speed, just go off the beaten track.
That said, with a nice car, you don't need to break the speed limit. Squeezing the throttle is numb and boring.
Splicing together 3 corners so that the car feels purposeful and composed but never rushed as it transitions... Now we're talking. Even though vmax might be 45mph!
I'm rather optimistic, like you I am young and cars are all what I plan to spend my money on, I tend to only really be interested in the sportier side of things so I can see my with a garage of track day cars and old cheap racers...
Sports cars are a rather broad class, but Ill give some predictions...
Small sports cars (MR2, MX5 etc)
I think this market will be focussed on lightness, cars will be around the 900kg mark. The engines they will be using will be whatever the eco unit of the range is (twin air, ecoboost etc), so think mk1 mx5 levels of power and weight and I think you have the future small sports car.
Given the turbo units, hopefully the engines will be able to utilise the 'modes' of modern cars, able to switch from a more aggressive map to an eco map meaning low co2 when your getting to your favourite roads, and good power when your on them...
So in a way the small sports car market is going more PH, lighter, little power, simple cars.
Mid ranges (Cayman, 350z, z4)
Depending on price, I don't think the engines will all go to turbos, the caymans 6 is only just over 200g/co2, so I don't think it will be long until the more tech savvy marques will be hitting really impressive co2 numbers with multi cylinder, high bhp engines.
However something that will be happening turbo wise, sports cars with a range, so z4, will use turbo units as the ease of ramping up the boost for quicker models, rather than new engines.
And once again - lightness! CF will be used a lot more. In cars around 40k
Super sports cars/supercars (911, vantage, 458)
I think a downsizing in engines will be common, so the 458 will go to a 3.5 for example, and with bhp/litre figures getting rather high in mass production supercars, the power will still be high (135bhp/litre in a 3litre is still 400bhp). But the figures will come from lighter cars, (see a theme?) the time and effort will go into not engines, but how to make a car that isn't Spartan racer, yet cuts an awful lot of weight. Hopefully 911s will go from 1400kg to 1200kgish. I also think top speed figures will become less emphasised, even the P1 fluff spoke about how the top speed wasn't a concern, so cars will focus more on keeping those 0-200kph figures down, than adding a couple more digits to the high end.
I don't worry too much about the co2, the 458 special is only 275g/co2, for 600bhp from a 4.5 v8 revving to 9000rpm - I think that's rather impressive! And it will only get better!
Sports cars are a rather broad class, but Ill give some predictions...
Small sports cars (MR2, MX5 etc)
I think this market will be focussed on lightness, cars will be around the 900kg mark. The engines they will be using will be whatever the eco unit of the range is (twin air, ecoboost etc), so think mk1 mx5 levels of power and weight and I think you have the future small sports car.
Given the turbo units, hopefully the engines will be able to utilise the 'modes' of modern cars, able to switch from a more aggressive map to an eco map meaning low co2 when your getting to your favourite roads, and good power when your on them...
So in a way the small sports car market is going more PH, lighter, little power, simple cars.
Mid ranges (Cayman, 350z, z4)
Depending on price, I don't think the engines will all go to turbos, the caymans 6 is only just over 200g/co2, so I don't think it will be long until the more tech savvy marques will be hitting really impressive co2 numbers with multi cylinder, high bhp engines.
However something that will be happening turbo wise, sports cars with a range, so z4, will use turbo units as the ease of ramping up the boost for quicker models, rather than new engines.
And once again - lightness! CF will be used a lot more. In cars around 40k
Super sports cars/supercars (911, vantage, 458)
I think a downsizing in engines will be common, so the 458 will go to a 3.5 for example, and with bhp/litre figures getting rather high in mass production supercars, the power will still be high (135bhp/litre in a 3litre is still 400bhp). But the figures will come from lighter cars, (see a theme?) the time and effort will go into not engines, but how to make a car that isn't Spartan racer, yet cuts an awful lot of weight. Hopefully 911s will go from 1400kg to 1200kgish. I also think top speed figures will become less emphasised, even the P1 fluff spoke about how the top speed wasn't a concern, so cars will focus more on keeping those 0-200kph figures down, than adding a couple more digits to the high end.
I don't worry too much about the co2, the 458 special is only 275g/co2, for 600bhp from a 4.5 v8 revving to 9000rpm - I think that's rather impressive! And it will only get better!
Read all the comments on PH about the Toyota 86 and the baby Caterham and you'll see a load of comments about how "slow" they are and that they'd be great if they had 50% more power.
It'll take a few years to educate drivers that more power + more grip + sub 5 second 0-60 time does not necessarily make a fun road car.
It'll take a few years to educate drivers that more power + more grip + sub 5 second 0-60 time does not necessarily make a fun road car.
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