New Car/First RWD Car?
Discussion
Morning all,
I'm in a bit of a dilemma currently as regards my car situation, and am hoping for some advice on the matter!
To give you a bit of background, I will shortly be 25, I have 7 years no claims bonus, and have owned a string of hot hatches (several 306 GTi6s and a Renaultsport Megane R26).
Unfortunately approx. three weeks ago I was driving to work in the R26 and was shunted in the rear by a Mercedes, sending me into a hedge at the national speed limit. Cutting a long story short the car has been written off and I have approximately £8k to spend on a car, to be driven daily all year round....
For those that know it, my commute is from Milford on the A283 to Billingshurst on the A272 via Petworth; in my opinion some of the best driving roads in the South
I enjoyed how the Megane drove, but have always hankered after something RWD... however I have no experience in a RWD car.
Leaving aside the obvious "You're bloody not getting a RWD car" remarks from the girlfriend, I've been looking at the following cars;
1. Honda s2000 - I love the engine, how they look, the cabin, how low you feel in them, and the fact they are a real drivers car. Downsides being the apparently snappy handling, and the geo bolts seizing, timing chains stretching, the hood tearing issue, and the girlfriend's misguided remarks of 'but it just looks like a girly car'..!
2. BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0si - again, I've heard very good things about how they drive, they make a fantastic noise, and I think they look gorgeous. From what I can gather this car will offer more comfort than the s2000 as a daily, but is still a hoot to drive. Downsides... well I need to look into indy servicing costs and parts costs as I've no idea on that front, but I assume they will not be cheap...! That and in general I'll almost certainly have to stretch my budget a bit further to get a better example...
3. E46 330ci (+/- clubsport) - Much cheaper, change from the budget to put into the mortgage/holiday (or so the girlfriend has been led to believe!), not a bad introduction into RWD with less power and probably a more forgiving chassis, but ultimately not as quick as the above, and larger/heavier to boot, somewhat dulling the handling sharpness/general feeling of 'I really am in something special'. (Please do correct me if I'm wrong, this is all theoretical at the moment as I have yet to start the rounds of dealerships and test drives!)
4. Renaultsport Clio 197 Cup - Again I'd have change from the £8k budget for a good one; FWD so known layout, and known to be a hoot to drive. Downsides; another hot hatch, heavier than the two GTi6s I had which were superb to hustle down my favourite backroads, and less powerful than the R26, which I'm concerned may feel like a step back when driving it...
So, I put it to you; am I being silly looking at fast RWD sports cars at this stage in my life; particularly the ones I have listed above? Should I be looking to get more experience of fast FWD cars first, or should I just be going for it?!
My rationale thus far is that I will be getting a RWD car at some point, I'd rather get one sooner to learn how to drive them. I fully intend on some advanced driver tuition, and possibly a couple of track-days throughout the year. But at the same time I am concerned (particularly by the reputation of the s2000) that I will find myself in winter in a ditch the wrong side of the road facing the wrong way seriously lamenting my decision!
I would also appreciate any information/feedback from owners of any of the above cars on running costs. I realise some of the choices in the list above will never have had comparisons drawn between them but in my (limited) knowledge thus far they all seem to be similar in terms of running costs....
Thanks in advance
Ed
I'm in a bit of a dilemma currently as regards my car situation, and am hoping for some advice on the matter!
To give you a bit of background, I will shortly be 25, I have 7 years no claims bonus, and have owned a string of hot hatches (several 306 GTi6s and a Renaultsport Megane R26).
Unfortunately approx. three weeks ago I was driving to work in the R26 and was shunted in the rear by a Mercedes, sending me into a hedge at the national speed limit. Cutting a long story short the car has been written off and I have approximately £8k to spend on a car, to be driven daily all year round....
For those that know it, my commute is from Milford on the A283 to Billingshurst on the A272 via Petworth; in my opinion some of the best driving roads in the South
I enjoyed how the Megane drove, but have always hankered after something RWD... however I have no experience in a RWD car.
Leaving aside the obvious "You're bloody not getting a RWD car" remarks from the girlfriend, I've been looking at the following cars;
1. Honda s2000 - I love the engine, how they look, the cabin, how low you feel in them, and the fact they are a real drivers car. Downsides being the apparently snappy handling, and the geo bolts seizing, timing chains stretching, the hood tearing issue, and the girlfriend's misguided remarks of 'but it just looks like a girly car'..!
2. BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0si - again, I've heard very good things about how they drive, they make a fantastic noise, and I think they look gorgeous. From what I can gather this car will offer more comfort than the s2000 as a daily, but is still a hoot to drive. Downsides... well I need to look into indy servicing costs and parts costs as I've no idea on that front, but I assume they will not be cheap...! That and in general I'll almost certainly have to stretch my budget a bit further to get a better example...
3. E46 330ci (+/- clubsport) - Much cheaper, change from the budget to put into the mortgage/holiday (or so the girlfriend has been led to believe!), not a bad introduction into RWD with less power and probably a more forgiving chassis, but ultimately not as quick as the above, and larger/heavier to boot, somewhat dulling the handling sharpness/general feeling of 'I really am in something special'. (Please do correct me if I'm wrong, this is all theoretical at the moment as I have yet to start the rounds of dealerships and test drives!)
4. Renaultsport Clio 197 Cup - Again I'd have change from the £8k budget for a good one; FWD so known layout, and known to be a hoot to drive. Downsides; another hot hatch, heavier than the two GTi6s I had which were superb to hustle down my favourite backroads, and less powerful than the R26, which I'm concerned may feel like a step back when driving it...
So, I put it to you; am I being silly looking at fast RWD sports cars at this stage in my life; particularly the ones I have listed above? Should I be looking to get more experience of fast FWD cars first, or should I just be going for it?!
My rationale thus far is that I will be getting a RWD car at some point, I'd rather get one sooner to learn how to drive them. I fully intend on some advanced driver tuition, and possibly a couple of track-days throughout the year. But at the same time I am concerned (particularly by the reputation of the s2000) that I will find myself in winter in a ditch the wrong side of the road facing the wrong way seriously lamenting my decision!
I would also appreciate any information/feedback from owners of any of the above cars on running costs. I realise some of the choices in the list above will never have had comparisons drawn between them but in my (limited) knowledge thus far they all seem to be similar in terms of running costs....
Thanks in advance
Ed
t whatever you're in and you'll probably do okay 
Got a VX220, aged 22, 3 years ago to use as a daily after two previous cars of Pug 106 and Astra Coupe.
The first one tried to kill me after 6 months thanks to a toe link failure but despite that I bought a second one within 2 weeks and 2 1/2 years later it is still going strong. A couple of traction losses but just have to limit yourself on damp days and enjoy the dry.
The first one tried to kill me after 6 months thanks to a toe link failure but despite that I bought a second one within 2 weeks and 2 1/2 years later it is still going strong. A couple of traction losses but just have to limit yourself on damp days and enjoy the dry.
I made the plunge in to RWD ownership last summer having turned 24. Granted, not as a daily driver. So all I can do is echo comments above and say when driven sensibly to the conditions at the time, there is no problem. When you get a better fel for the car you will begin to understand what is sensible and where limits are under varying conditions. I try to stay well below these limits. Bearing this in mind you won't have a problem.
From your list I would go S2000.
From your list I would go S2000.
If you want to, you can curb the S2000's waywardness to a large degree simply by playing with the suspension geometry. The biggest problem I had with the S2000's setup was actually the front-end not the rear - the steering gives you very little idea of what's going on at the front wheels and the rack is fast to the point of feeling unintuitive, to me at least.
kambites said:
My first car was RWD and I didn't end up in a field (fortunately, because it also had bugger all crash protection).
Mine too. But mine also had too little power to ever cause much trouble. From that list, I think the Z4 would offer the best all rounder. Fun when you want, comfy(ish), well put together.
S2000s are great when you're in the mood but tiresome when you need to just cruise over a long distance.
For 8k I would look at some chalk and cheese.
Porsche 944 S2 or Turbo, and Impreza.
My favorite corner is SussEx-Mühle - you must know the bit I mean.
Porsche 944 S2 or Turbo, and Impreza.
Squidward said:
... to Billingshurst on the A272 via Petworth; in my opinion some of the best driving roads in the South
shhhhh keep your voice down - we don't want anyone else on the A272.My favorite corner is SussEx-Mühle - you must know the bit I mean.
a Z4 3.0 coupe for £8k? pretty sure that isn't possible unless cat D/ high mileage? Unless they'v dropped significantly from when I looked before christmas.
Out of the above I'd get the Z4 all day long, but I'd get the 3.0si roadster, the coupe looks slightly better, but what's the point in a two seater if you can't enjoy open top motoring? The roadster on CSL's look's stunning too.
The engine is bullet proof and you should see mid 20's/high 20's mpg from that sort of commute I reckon, Z4's have a tendancy to snap rear springs but apart from that are generally very reliable - might want to research more into this via z4 forum.
£8k would get you a very tidy 130i, doesn't look as nice but offer's a fair bit more practicality with the same engine & sound.
Out of the above I'd get the Z4 all day long, but I'd get the 3.0si roadster, the coupe looks slightly better, but what's the point in a two seater if you can't enjoy open top motoring? The roadster on CSL's look's stunning too.
The engine is bullet proof and you should see mid 20's/high 20's mpg from that sort of commute I reckon, Z4's have a tendancy to snap rear springs but apart from that are generally very reliable - might want to research more into this via z4 forum.
£8k would get you a very tidy 130i, doesn't look as nice but offer's a fair bit more practicality with the same engine & sound.
Dr Jekyll said:
Squidward said:
Morning all,
My rationale thus far is that I will be getting a RWD car at some point, I'd rather get one sooner to learn how to drive them.
Drive it exactly the same way you drive a FWD, it really makes no practical difference.My rationale thus far is that I will be getting a RWD car at some point, I'd rather get one sooner to learn how to drive them.
(1) You will have a more precise turn-in and no interference from drive on the steering.
(2) You will have more acceleration out of corners.
(3) You will, at least at first, have to brake more before entering the corner BUT make sure to be back on the throttle once in the bend.
A RWD car reward good driving more than does a FWD. It also punishes bad driving a bit more - for example, it will respond more badly/unpredictably to braking in the middle of a corner (but you shouldnt be doing that in any car).
None of the cars you mention are death traps - they dont have the power to weight ratio to get you in much trouble or the torque (apart maybe from the BMW) to brake traction dangerously.
ORD said:
Ignore this advice. RWD does drive differently from FWD. You will notice the following (if you can drive at all):-
(1) You will have a more precise turn-in and no interference from drive on the steering.
(2) You will have more acceleration out of corners.
(3) You will, at least at first, have to brake more before entering the corner BUT make sure to be back on the throttle once in the bend.
This. In dry conditions a decent RWD car will not bite you at all. Brake a bit more before cornering as suggested but then enjoy the turn in and more precise steering feel as you throttle out of the bend. (1) You will have a more precise turn-in and no interference from drive on the steering.
(2) You will have more acceleration out of corners.
(3) You will, at least at first, have to brake more before entering the corner BUT make sure to be back on the throttle once in the bend.
In damp, wet or icy conditions then don't take any liberties and you will be fine. In my car, I enjoy the drive more than in similar FWD saloons but I also take more caution when its not dry than I would in FWD cars.
Even in the wet, a decently balanced RWD car will be easy to get back if it steps out as long as you're no tanking it. I've had some moments on wet roundabouts and a simple steering correction gets everything back without any drama or god like driving skills required. In fact it's often more predictable and controllable than a lot of FWD understeer moments in similar circumstances.
Test a few cars and choose your weapon without worrying about the "you'll die if it's RWD" comments.
Z4C out of all of those if you can get a good'un, otherwise closely followed by the S2000.
You have had a string of decent FWD cars so I think anything similar isn't really going to feel significantly different, and you've said you want a change.
A 3 Series is not really a 'sports car' it's a Coupe version of a saloon which happens to be RWD. It's very grown up compared with the other cars so I'd cross that off the list right away. Don't think it would be that enjoyable to point and squirt down a B-road.
You have had a string of decent FWD cars so I think anything similar isn't really going to feel significantly different, and you've said you want a change.
A 3 Series is not really a 'sports car' it's a Coupe version of a saloon which happens to be RWD. It's very grown up compared with the other cars so I'd cross that off the list right away. Don't think it would be that enjoyable to point and squirt down a B-road.
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