Am I being unreasonable to not want modern "features"
Discussion
I am in the market for a Diesel estate car. I have my kitcar for fun and want something with lots of space, roofrack and great economy. As a new dad, ferrying my kids around safely and comfortably and cheaply is top of the list, and driving dynamics are pretty much irrelevant.
I will do all work, wherever possible, on the car myself. I will keep the car until it is uneconomical to do so, or it is knackered, I think about 5 years seems reasonable.
I have 10k cash in hand to buy a good estate car. Seems like the V70 D5 is the best bet, but I am open to suggestions.
I have been to have a look at a few cars, and they just leave me cold, they are packed full of features I don't want/need and seem like they will inevitably go wrong, like electronic handbrakes, DPF's, Geartronic/auto gearboxes, mutiple turbos and miles of vaccum piping, finely toleranced injectors, the list is endless.
Do I buy one with all the electonic/emissions gubbins, and just accept that I will one day get a bill for thousands, on something I have no chance of fixing myself ?
Am I just being hopelessly old fashioned and blowing up the issues into something more than they are ? My personal annecdotal experience suggests not ( my friends with modern diesel engines have all suffered problems )
Are the days of buying a second hand car after its done its depreciating over ? 10k would buy me under 2 years of leasing a D5 as they are 500+pounds a month
I saw a low mileage V70 manual facelift with the Euro 3 engine the other day on autotrader. It was a lot of money for a 9 year old car and about 200miles away...but I found myself very tempted.
Anything out there I am missing ?
I will do all work, wherever possible, on the car myself. I will keep the car until it is uneconomical to do so, or it is knackered, I think about 5 years seems reasonable.
I have 10k cash in hand to buy a good estate car. Seems like the V70 D5 is the best bet, but I am open to suggestions.
I have been to have a look at a few cars, and they just leave me cold, they are packed full of features I don't want/need and seem like they will inevitably go wrong, like electronic handbrakes, DPF's, Geartronic/auto gearboxes, mutiple turbos and miles of vaccum piping, finely toleranced injectors, the list is endless.
Do I buy one with all the electonic/emissions gubbins, and just accept that I will one day get a bill for thousands, on something I have no chance of fixing myself ?
Am I just being hopelessly old fashioned and blowing up the issues into something more than they are ? My personal annecdotal experience suggests not ( my friends with modern diesel engines have all suffered problems )
Are the days of buying a second hand car after its done its depreciating over ? 10k would buy me under 2 years of leasing a D5 as they are 500+pounds a month
I saw a low mileage V70 manual facelift with the Euro 3 engine the other day on autotrader. It was a lot of money for a 9 year old car and about 200miles away...but I found myself very tempted.
Anything out there I am missing ?
I think you are saying you have £10k to spend on a car which you think will last you 5 years. Why not look for something older for £3k which might last you 5 years....but safe in the knowledge that if only lasts 18 months you can chop it in and get another £3k car. Then repeat as above.
Aim for an older, simpler diesel without a DPF and save some of your money to meet the maintenance needs.
A VW 1.9 PD 130hp diesel would be a good bet, without common rail gubbins to go wrong, and an older one won't be fitted with a DPF. Check out the VW Passat 5.5 and Skoda Octavia or Superb Mark 1, or an older Audi A4 or A6 estate.
A VW 1.9 PD 130hp diesel would be a good bet, without common rail gubbins to go wrong, and an older one won't be fitted with a DPF. Check out the VW Passat 5.5 and Skoda Octavia or Superb Mark 1, or an older Audi A4 or A6 estate.
With regards to your financial comments.
Don't forget if you sell a £10k car after 5 years you'll probably get at least £3k back.
It's also possible the car could last longer than 5 years.
I have a Disco 3, I've not had it long but I'm looking at newish cars now to see what might replace it in 5 years.
The only think that comes close is the Disco 4 - which isn't worth upgrading to (for me).
So unless it suffers massive mechanical failure I'll probably just keep it.
Don't forget if you sell a £10k car after 5 years you'll probably get at least £3k back.
It's also possible the car could last longer than 5 years.
I have a Disco 3, I've not had it long but I'm looking at newish cars now to see what might replace it in 5 years.
The only think that comes close is the Disco 4 - which isn't worth upgrading to (for me).
So unless it suffers massive mechanical failure I'll probably just keep it.
I was in a similar situation, looked and test drove loads of diesel estates, ended up with a Mazda 6 2.2 Sport. Ticked all the boxes for me, and it doesn't even sound like a diesel (not from the inside anyway). 180 bhp, 300 lbft and 50mpg.
It's got heated seats, which at first I thought were ridiculous but I've come to love them as they stop me getting lower back pain on a long drive. It's also got rear view monitoring and all kinds of other chassis related acronyms but you can disable them all, if you really want to. The tyre pressure monitors are a pain the arse though as the previous owner removed the sensors from the tyres and the warning light is on all the time. The ride is also quite firm and my whippet doesn't like the in gear acceleration as it sticks him to the rear windscreen.
Just don't get the one with the 2.0 Ford engine, get the 2.2, it doesn't have the DPF issues and it doesn't sound like you're ragging a knackered old Transit every time you accelerate.
It's got heated seats, which at first I thought were ridiculous but I've come to love them as they stop me getting lower back pain on a long drive. It's also got rear view monitoring and all kinds of other chassis related acronyms but you can disable them all, if you really want to. The tyre pressure monitors are a pain the arse though as the previous owner removed the sensors from the tyres and the warning light is on all the time. The ride is also quite firm and my whippet doesn't like the in gear acceleration as it sticks him to the rear windscreen.
Just don't get the one with the 2.0 Ford engine, get the 2.2, it doesn't have the DPF issues and it doesn't sound like you're ragging a knackered old Transit every time you accelerate.
Get a Japanese Petrol, Honda Accord Estate with a 2.0 petrol is a good bet, wont be as economical but it probably wont break costing you hundreds/thousands to fix.
I do feel for people who buy a diesel and spend ages driving round at 40 odd to the gallon and then have all the savings wiped out as it needs a DPF, Injectors or some other diesel specific, and very expensive attention where 2 litres of sixteen valve Honda will drag itself round at say 25 - 35 mpg, for ever.
Remember when a 16 valve car with an ECU seemed like witchcraft
I do feel for people who buy a diesel and spend ages driving round at 40 odd to the gallon and then have all the savings wiped out as it needs a DPF, Injectors or some other diesel specific, and very expensive attention where 2 litres of sixteen valve Honda will drag itself round at say 25 - 35 mpg, for ever.
Remember when a 16 valve car with an ECU seemed like witchcraft
Vladimir said:
The stuff that artificially "cleans" diesel fumes then breaks the entire car does get right on my nerves.
Swirl flaps, DPFs, DMFs, EGR valves; all evil.
EGR valves have been around for years and should be cleaned out come service time - most garages don't bother causing them to fail although I do agree that they are utterly pointless - Can be "plumbed out" on most cars though. Swirl flaps, DPFs, DMFs, EGR valves; all evil.
A euro 3, Facelift V70 is the model to go for as it avoids the electrical gremlins of the earlier cars and the DPF nonsense of the Euro 4 car
A euro 3 S60 D5 will be my next car - no doubt. To me, the only largely robust modern diesel you can buy
The other option I considered is manually removing some of the Emissions features.
Take the DPF off, get a long drill bit and gut it. Buy blanking plates for the EGR system.
However I worry I will end up with constant error codes, and I won't be able to MOT the car in future..the MOT requirements are getting stricter and stricter.
And I can't remove all the features...I can't do anything about the high pressure diesel system and its injectors, and the electronics....I test drove a 2009 Volvo V70 yesterday, it had keyless start, electronic handbrake, parking sensors, Geartronic gearbox, heated seats,and a steering wheel full of buttons.
Take the DPF off, get a long drill bit and gut it. Buy blanking plates for the EGR system.
However I worry I will end up with constant error codes, and I won't be able to MOT the car in future..the MOT requirements are getting stricter and stricter.
And I can't remove all the features...I can't do anything about the high pressure diesel system and its injectors, and the electronics....I test drove a 2009 Volvo V70 yesterday, it had keyless start, electronic handbrake, parking sensors, Geartronic gearbox, heated seats,and a steering wheel full of buttons.
They are (quite rightly) designed around the 1st owner. All this kit is fine for the first 3 years whilst the thing is within warranty but contains serious bork potential for the guy who buys it afterwards. I've always ran older cars and fixed them myself but could see myself leasing in a few years time the way things are going.
I see Vauxhall are moving back to mechanical handbrakes on the newer Astras though. Maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
I see Vauxhall are moving back to mechanical handbrakes on the newer Astras though. Maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
itz_baseline said:
I think you are saying you have £10k to spend on a car which you think will last you 5 years. Why not look for something older for £3k which might last you 5 years....but safe in the knowledge that if only lasts 18 months you can chop it in and get another £3k car. Then repeat as above.
Having tried this a few times, I found it a bit frustrating. What I found was that there was usually something either wrong, or going wrong with the car. The radiator would be leaking, the brakes would need attention, something would have failed on the suspension, a mysterious rattle would develop. Nothing that would actually kill the car, or cause me to sell it, but I am a bit anal about not driving cars with issues, and I found this chewed up a great deal of time and money finding and solving the problems. I am even less keen on doing this with my kids in the car and my wife doing a lot of the driving. Spending a bit more, and overservicing the car myself seems to be a much more successful strategy for me. ExPat2B said:
The other option I considered is manually removing some of the Emissions features.
Take the DPF off, get a long drill bit and gut it. Buy blanking plates for the EGR system.
The main problem with DPFs is people buying diesels who don't really need them, doing lots of very short urban journeys, the DPF will not burn off the particulates unless you're travelling at a certain speed (normally over 50mph). This is to prevent it doing it in built up areas where the smell is highly offensive. So the DPF clogs and needs replacing.Take the DPF off, get a long drill bit and gut it. Buy blanking plates for the EGR system.
Diesels only really make sense when you're doing more miles and longer journeys where the advantages of a decent range and comfortable motorway cruising outweigh the many negatives.
We are always driving to Wales from Sussex and it will do the trip there and back, over 500 miles, at a nice quiet 85mph cruise on one tank, useful when you have sleeping kids that detect the shortest pause in motion.
Hmmm, just compared the fuel cost of Manual Honda Accord 2.0 Petrol over 5 years /100,000k miles vs Manual V70 D5. Assuming Diesel is 5p a litre more expensive and that remains constant.
Based on average MPG ( 34 vs 41 ) 3300 cheaper.
Urban MPG (26 vs 31 ) 4200 cheaper
Extra Urban ( 41.5 vs 51.5 ) 2500 cheaper
Accord is approx 3000 less expensive to buy. Both have 0-60 of approx 10 seconds. Accord appears to have a bigger boot based on litres.
Volvo would cost 200 pounds over 5 years less to tax ( 260 vs 220 )
So over 100,000 miles, they work out roughly similar to run.....maybe you sould say the Volvo was 500 pounds cheaper, of course this does not include resale value or servicing.
So it would only take 1 serious bill to wipe out the very small savings.
Based on average MPG ( 34 vs 41 ) 3300 cheaper.
Urban MPG (26 vs 31 ) 4200 cheaper
Extra Urban ( 41.5 vs 51.5 ) 2500 cheaper
Accord is approx 3000 less expensive to buy. Both have 0-60 of approx 10 seconds. Accord appears to have a bigger boot based on litres.
Volvo would cost 200 pounds over 5 years less to tax ( 260 vs 220 )
So over 100,000 miles, they work out roughly similar to run.....maybe you sould say the Volvo was 500 pounds cheaper, of course this does not include resale value or servicing.
So it would only take 1 serious bill to wipe out the very small savings.
MiseryStreak said:
I was in a similar situation, looked and test drove loads of diesel estates, ended up with a Mazda 6 2.2 Sport. Ticked all the boxes for me, and it doesn't even sound like a diesel (not from the inside anyway). 180 bhp, 300 lbft and 50mpg.
It's got heated seats, which at first I thought were ridiculous but I've come to love them as they stop me getting lower back pain on a long drive. It's also got rear view monitoring and all kinds of other chassis related acronyms but you can disable them all, if you really want to. The tyre pressure monitors are a pain the arse though as the previous owner removed the sensors from the tyres and the warning light is on all the time. The ride is also quite firm and my whippet doesn't like the in gear acceleration as it sticks him to the rear windscreen.
Just don't get the one with the 2.0 Ford engine, get the 2.2, it doesn't have the DPF issues and it doesn't sound like you're ragging a knackered old Transit every time you accelerate.
Which magazine recommended one of these in the April issue.It's got heated seats, which at first I thought were ridiculous but I've come to love them as they stop me getting lower back pain on a long drive. It's also got rear view monitoring and all kinds of other chassis related acronyms but you can disable them all, if you really want to. The tyre pressure monitors are a pain the arse though as the previous owner removed the sensors from the tyres and the warning light is on all the time. The ride is also quite firm and my whippet doesn't like the in gear acceleration as it sticks him to the rear windscreen.
Just don't get the one with the 2.0 Ford engine, get the 2.2, it doesn't have the DPF issues and it doesn't sound like you're ragging a knackered old Transit every time you accelerate.
Most of my miles are quite short trips though so I don't thin a diesel would really be ideal for me.
I haven't had a Mazda before so would make a change.
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