Will this change the number of Diesels?

[Fastdruid]

I was reading this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26851399 and noted that:

bbc.co.uk said:

Last month, the EU announced it was taking legal action against the UK because it was persistently over the safe limit for air pollution - in particular, levels of nitrogen dioxide.

followed by

bbc.co.uk said:

Frank Kelly, professor of Environmental Health at King's College London, puts the blame for the UK's pollution woes squarely on the shift to diesel vehicles over the past 10 years.

Six out of 10 cars sold today in the UK are diesels, and these produce a lot of nitrogen dioxide, he says.

Now it seems from a quick google that Diesels produce 20x more Nitrogen Dioxide than Petrols.

So given how happy our government are to raise taxes for "Environmental" issues, so what are the odds of a shift in taxation punishing the Diesel driver and potentially swinging the pendulum back towards petrol off the back of this current air pollution?

[DottyMR2]

Fastdruid said:

I was reading this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26851399 and noted that:

bbc.co.uk said:

Last month, the EU announced it was taking legal action against the UK because it was persistently over the safe limit for air pollution - in particular, levels of nitrogen dioxide.

followed by

bbc.co.uk said:

Frank Kelly, professor of Environmental Health at King's College London, puts the blame for the UK's pollution woes squarely on the shift to diesel vehicles over the past 10 years.

Six out of 10 cars sold today in the UK are diesels, and these produce a lot of nitrogen dioxide, he says.

Now it seems from a quick google that Diesels produce 20x more Nitrogen Dioxide than Petrols.

So given how happy our government are to raise taxes for "Environmental" issues, so what are the odds of a shift in taxation punishing the Diesel driver and potentially swinging the pendulum back towards petrol off the back of this current air pollution?

Petrol tax will stay the same and they'll raise the diesel. Squeeze every penny possible out of the tax payer and all that.

[Fastdruid]

Haha, yeah I wouldn't expect Petrol taxation to go down!

[Tomo1971]

Yet wasn't it the government that promoted diesels a few years ago by having lower tax on diesel?

LPG will be next..... 'They' will find something wrong with that and use that as an excuse to raise the tax on LPG.

[Mastodon2]

The government loved a dirty diesel, until they realised the emissions are even more insidious and dangerous than petrol car emissions.

[The Moose]

If it were I, I'd tell the EU to fk right off with their legal action. Bunch of fking s

[oyster]

The Moose said:

If it were I, I'd tell the EU to fk right off with their legal action. Bunch of fking s

Except it's our air that is polluted, so actually their doing what the UK government should be doing.

If this was related to CO2 I'd agree with you but this is real pollution, not made up stuff.

[r-kid]

There was a short lived ban in Paris earlier this year.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2014/03...

IIRC there was a french minister concerned that if they imposed the EU limits the French car industry would suffer due to their reliance on diesel sales.

[Lost soul]

Fastdruid said:

So given how happy our government are to raise taxes for "Environmental" issues, so what are the odds of a shift in taxation punishing the Diesel driver and potentially swinging the pendulum back towards petrol off the back of this current air pollution?

They already do on fuel duty

[slipstream 1985]

leave the eu. problem solved

[kambites]

slipstream 1985 said:

leave the eu. problem solved

How would leaving the EU reduce our air's nitrous oxide levels?

[slipstream 1985]

currybum said:

slipstream 1985 said:

leave the eu. problem solved

Its the EU trying to make our government fix the problem of high pollution..

How is leaving going to solve that problem?

cant take legal action over us.

[kambites]

slipstream 1985 said:

cant take legal action over us.

Couldn't care less about legal action, but I certainly don't want to live in a country with nitrogen dioxide levels at several times the WHO limit! If we really are in that situation, I welcome anyone who will take legal action to rectify the situation, nitrous oxides are very nasty things.

[slipstream 1985]

kambites said:

slipstream 1985 said:

cant take legal action over us.

Couldn't care less about legal action, but I certainly don't want to live in a country with nitrogen dioxide levels at several times the WHO limit! If we really are in that situation, I welcome anyone who will take legal action to rectify the situation, nitrous oxides are very nasty things.

slow news week to me. infact talks of ebola and global warming have made the news lately. probably because there isnt something else arround to keep the masses in fear and a reason to tax the nasty things that cause them. petrol/ cars etc.

[Fastdruid]

Lost soul said:

Fastdruid said:

So given how happy our government are to raise taxes for "Environmental" issues, so what are the odds of a shift in taxation punishing the Diesel driver and potentially swinging the pendulum back towards petrol off the back of this current air pollution?

They already do on fuel duty

No they don't. Duty on petrol and diesel is exactly the same (although you pay more VAT on diesel as the 'product' is more expensive). Diesel is just more expensive.

[nottyash]

Hopefully they will tax them for the st they kick out the back rather than a stupid co2 figure the government is hell bent on believing. Its nothing new but our governments have chosen to ignore it.

[BFG TERRANO]

Diesel fumes contain PM10. Nasty little particles that cling to the lungs. The government will never be anti diesel as it would be anti all the diesel powered public transport then.

[anonymous-user]

It's worth noting the absolute magnitude of the pollutants rather than a comparison by ratio!

Ie, yes a modern diesel produces more of certain pollutants than a modern gasoline engine, but that's because a modern gasoline engine is so clean it's practically un-measurable!
The issue is with older diesel cars, and generally HGVs etc that pump out by mass the massive majority of the pollutant matter!

It's also worth noting that the concentrations determined to be potentially "unsafe" these days are incredibly low.

[hondansx]

slipstream 1985 said:

leave the eu. problem solved

Welcome, Mr Farage.

[Fastdruid]

Max_Torque said:

It's worth noting the absolute magnitude of the pollutants rather than a comparison by ratio!

Ie, yes a modern diesel produces more of certain pollutants than a modern gasoline engine, but that's because a modern gasoline engine is so clean it's practically un-measurable!
The issue is with older diesel cars, and generally HGVs etc that pump out by mass the massive majority of the pollutant matter!

While I somewhat agree with you, the point was that it isn't older Diesels, it's all Diesels as despite tighter regulations they haven't improved over the last 15 years while Petrol cars are 96% better than pre-cat days.

Reference - http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/reports/cat05/110825114...
We find that diesel cars and LGV emissions of NOx have not decreased for the past 15–20 years; even for Euro 5 vehicles.

Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 3rd April 21:41