Lowering Springs and shocks.
Discussion
Hi,
Looking at slamming an MG ZR for a stanced/euro look however i was shocked to find that the price of MG ZR compatible Coilovers are sky high and theres almost no second hand ones about either (probably due to the high cost).
I was thinking of lowering it springs but im not sure how best to go about this. I heard you need to replaces shocks as well otherwise your risking a hard ride? Fairly new to modding cars so can someone shed some light on this that'd be great.
And also while im at it i may as well ask - is there actually any benefit to buying a K&N air filter? I fail to see how it would increase performance.
Thanks Guys.
Looking at slamming an MG ZR for a stanced/euro look however i was shocked to find that the price of MG ZR compatible Coilovers are sky high and theres almost no second hand ones about either (probably due to the high cost).
I was thinking of lowering it springs but im not sure how best to go about this. I heard you need to replaces shocks as well otherwise your risking a hard ride? Fairly new to modding cars so can someone shed some light on this that'd be great.
And also while im at it i may as well ask - is there actually any benefit to buying a K&N air filter? I fail to see how it would increase performance.
Thanks Guys.
opcorn:Jake91 said:
Hi,
Looking at slamming an MG ZR for a stanced/euro look however i was shocked to find that the price of MG ZR compatible Coilovers are sky high and theres almost no second hand ones about either (probably due to the high cost).
I was thinking of lowering it springs but im not sure how best to go about this. I heard you need to replaces shocks as well otherwise your risking a hard ride? Fairly new to modding cars so can someone shed some light on this that'd be great.
And also while im at it i may as well ask - is there actually any benefit to buying a K&N air filter? I fail to see how it would increase performance.
Thanks Guys.
Quoted for posperity Looking at slamming an MG ZR for a stanced/euro look however i was shocked to find that the price of MG ZR compatible Coilovers are sky high and theres almost no second hand ones about either (probably due to the high cost).
I was thinking of lowering it springs but im not sure how best to go about this. I heard you need to replaces shocks as well otherwise your risking a hard ride? Fairly new to modding cars so can someone shed some light on this that'd be great.
And also while im at it i may as well ask - is there actually any benefit to buying a K&N air filter? I fail to see how it would increase performance.
Thanks Guys.
Monkeylegend said:
This should be good.
One comment that seems to follow my threads round like a bad smell. Ah well ill get all the stupid questions out of the way in the first few months of membership and who knows maybe a year down the line ill be posting the exact same comment on other threads haha.Jake91 said:
One comment that seems to follow my threads round like a bad smell. Ah well ill get all the stupid questions out of the way in the first few months of membership and who knows maybe a year down the line ill be posting the exact same comment on other threads haha.
Perhaps you'll be feeling better by then.I for one can not stand the dub or stance scene. It stinks of ruining a good cars capability to achieve a, quite frankly ridiculous look.
However....
You can get some springs from eibach or similar manufacturer and ask if they can match the drop with uprated dampers, which they will be able to do. You buy the package, fit it and the ride won't be half as crashy as leaving it on unmatched dampers. Should you refrain from ruining the car and go for a decent amount of drop, the matched pair is a pretty good upgrade to any car. Especially when it comes to track work.
Saying that, you can't beat a set of fully adjustable coilovers. You get what you pay for.
However....
You can get some springs from eibach or similar manufacturer and ask if they can match the drop with uprated dampers, which they will be able to do. You buy the package, fit it and the ride won't be half as crashy as leaving it on unmatched dampers. Should you refrain from ruining the car and go for a decent amount of drop, the matched pair is a pretty good upgrade to any car. Especially when it comes to track work.
Saying that, you can't beat a set of fully adjustable coilovers. You get what you pay for.
Jake91 said:
Monkeylegend said:
This should be good.
One comment that seems to follow my threads round like a bad smell. Ah well ill get all the stupid questions out of the way in the first few months of membership and who knows maybe a year down the line ill be posting the exact same comment on other threads haha.
Before everyone jumps and the ban wagon and slates you, I'll try and help.
If you are lowering the ride height of your car you are reducing the travel of the suspension that is available for the suspension to absorb bumps (yes I realise there are exceptions but I'm assuming we are talking euro/stanced levels of drop rather than perhaps 20mm/30mm drop) in most cases it is unavoidable that the ride will be firmer.
At a sensible drop, I'd replace the dampers with a matched kit from Bilstein or similar, at the drop your suggesting, I wouldn't bother as you are proposing to take away most of the available travel so the ride quality will be pretty much ruined.
K+N filter? It can (theoretically)to let more air into the engine, which in turn can be mixed with more fuel for more power.
Noticeable gains? Doubtful. They are re-usable though, so assuming you don't knacker the vehicle by driving it on ruined suspension, you could perhaps argue there is a cost saving in the long run.
If you are lowering the ride height of your car you are reducing the travel of the suspension that is available for the suspension to absorb bumps (yes I realise there are exceptions but I'm assuming we are talking euro/stanced levels of drop rather than perhaps 20mm/30mm drop) in most cases it is unavoidable that the ride will be firmer.
At a sensible drop, I'd replace the dampers with a matched kit from Bilstein or similar, at the drop your suggesting, I wouldn't bother as you are proposing to take away most of the available travel so the ride quality will be pretty much ruined.
K+N filter? It can (theoretically)to let more air into the engine, which in turn can be mixed with more fuel for more power.
Noticeable gains? Doubtful. They are re-usable though, so assuming you don't knacker the vehicle by driving it on ruined suspension, you could perhaps argue there is a cost saving in the long run.
Jake91 said:
And also while im at it i may as well ask - is there actually any benefit to buying a K&N air filter? I fail to see how it would increase performance.
OK, I'll bite!The theory behind K&N and other 'uprated' filters is that they are more efficient. Air filters as a side-effect of their main purpose ie. to remove dust and other particles from the air entering your engine also slow down and/or restrict the volume of air entering. More air/fuel mixture should theoretically give more power.
That's the theory, but in practice there are other issues that come into play such as the actual air intake pipes themselves causing restriction that is not then free'd up by changing the filter element - which is why you can obtain complete kits that replace the airbox with a cone filter and a cold-air intake system. Cone filters on their own can actually cause a drop in performance as the engine is then taking in air that has been heated by the engine itself rather than drawn from the front of the car.
Plenty info on the 'net if you are prepared to do your homework.
PS. There are many unconfirmed reports of K&N filters causing contamination of MAF sensors. This is reportedly because they use oil soaked cotton to trap particles rather than just paper or foam and the oil allegedly ends up in the airflow.
Suffice to say every car I have owned since 1990 I have replaced the standard ait filter with a K&N item at some point during ownership (usually co-inciding with the first service I do) and I've never replaced a MAF yet.
Also, my current BMW 330i has a K&N element fitted, and before doing so I researched the 'official' BMW performance filter upgrade, and was not in the least bit surprised to discover that it had the K&N logo and part number on it, and the only practical difference between them (apart from the vast price difference) was that the BMW one used clear oil in the cotton rather than the red-dyed stuff K&N use on their own brand products.
Edited by r11co on Friday 25th April 13:08
Jake91 said:
gfunk said:
Ar bro is gonna be sick with you shizzle all on the flizzle!!
Make sure you get some wicked camber and porsche rims don't forget not to change the brakes.
Thats a hideously modified car...Make sure you get some wicked camber and porsche rims don't forget not to change the brakes.
Im literally proposing lowering it and maybe some deep dishes.
Right, I'm going to answer your question properly rather than being an arse, but first of all I'm going to point out a couple of things that largely define why other people are being them:
> "Euro look" used to be low-but-manageable, lots of OEM+ bits and a big performance hike, usually via turbo conversion or a fun engine swap. These days it's become a game of "how low can you go" and it basically ruins how the cars drive. Suggesting that you want to do this to your car on a forum full of enthusiasts whose primary interest is in driving never goes down well. It also looks stupid, as I imagine you'll also realise in a couple of years.
> Anyone who refers to cars as "slammed" is unlikely to have any interest in actually driving them, which generally leads to mocking and derision on a forum that's largely devoted to driving cars.
> People who talk about the "scene" are even bigger bores than Ferrari merchandise aficionados.
Now, onto the actual question: how low do you want to go? Do you want to keep, or possibly improve, ride and handling? Then you don't want to be going much lower than 40mm on, well, anything really. It messes up all sorts of things- castor, camber, steering angle...basically everything that negatively affects how a car drives. 40mm isn't going to be low enough to be accepted in the "scene" but similarly it won't result the kinds of people who don't wear ironic t-shirts and very tight jeans laughing at you.
If you don't need adjustment, a decent spring and shock combination is just as good, if not better, than most coilover kits, even in cases where those kits are substantially more expensive. A set of performance shocks like Konis or Bilsteins can be picked up for a few hundred quid for all four corners; paired with a £150 set of decent springs from the likes of an Eibach Pro spring set you'll have a reasonable drop and improved road-holding without some of the negative impacts you traditionally associate with aftermarket suspension- unbearably hard ride, tramlining, poor rebound performance, getting stuck on speed bumps et cetera. Look around some of the forums to see the kinds of setup other people are using for fast road driving for inspiration.
Cheap coilovers are almost universally rubbish unfortunately. Good adjustable suspension (that's what "coilovers" really are) tend to be very expensive new. Second-hand stuff is always a bit of a minefield. How old is your car? On a relatively new set of OEM shocks a set of lowering springs- especially progressive ones- can make a decent positive impact but on old, worn out shocks it's not likely to feel good or drive well. If you're swapping major suspension components, you need to consider things like replacing bushes that are also likely to be worn out.
K&N style open filters usually result in a decrease in power due to heat soak. The airboxes on most cars are pretty well designed for getting decent volumes of atmospheric temperature air into the engine.
> "Euro look" used to be low-but-manageable, lots of OEM+ bits and a big performance hike, usually via turbo conversion or a fun engine swap. These days it's become a game of "how low can you go" and it basically ruins how the cars drive. Suggesting that you want to do this to your car on a forum full of enthusiasts whose primary interest is in driving never goes down well. It also looks stupid, as I imagine you'll also realise in a couple of years.
> Anyone who refers to cars as "slammed" is unlikely to have any interest in actually driving them, which generally leads to mocking and derision on a forum that's largely devoted to driving cars.
> People who talk about the "scene" are even bigger bores than Ferrari merchandise aficionados.
Now, onto the actual question: how low do you want to go? Do you want to keep, or possibly improve, ride and handling? Then you don't want to be going much lower than 40mm on, well, anything really. It messes up all sorts of things- castor, camber, steering angle...basically everything that negatively affects how a car drives. 40mm isn't going to be low enough to be accepted in the "scene" but similarly it won't result the kinds of people who don't wear ironic t-shirts and very tight jeans laughing at you.
If you don't need adjustment, a decent spring and shock combination is just as good, if not better, than most coilover kits, even in cases where those kits are substantially more expensive. A set of performance shocks like Konis or Bilsteins can be picked up for a few hundred quid for all four corners; paired with a £150 set of decent springs from the likes of an Eibach Pro spring set you'll have a reasonable drop and improved road-holding without some of the negative impacts you traditionally associate with aftermarket suspension- unbearably hard ride, tramlining, poor rebound performance, getting stuck on speed bumps et cetera. Look around some of the forums to see the kinds of setup other people are using for fast road driving for inspiration.
Cheap coilovers are almost universally rubbish unfortunately. Good adjustable suspension (that's what "coilovers" really are) tend to be very expensive new. Second-hand stuff is always a bit of a minefield. How old is your car? On a relatively new set of OEM shocks a set of lowering springs- especially progressive ones- can make a decent positive impact but on old, worn out shocks it's not likely to feel good or drive well. If you're swapping major suspension components, you need to consider things like replacing bushes that are also likely to be worn out.
K&N style open filters usually result in a decrease in power due to heat soak. The airboxes on most cars are pretty well designed for getting decent volumes of atmospheric temperature air into the engine.
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