Obsolescence by design?

[Toaster Pilot]

Serviced my 2010 Kia Rio today, first time I've been underneath it because it's had main dealer servicing until now

Noticed there's a plastic panel that is bolted to the front crossmember - looks like an undertray but it's only the width of the crossmember and no more. Took it off to aid access to the oil filter.

Water runs out and I notice the beam is rusting already. 4 years and 29000 miles old.

So, designed in obsolescence? Make you bin it as soon as that £350+/year warranty is over? Or am I too cynical?

[skyrover]

Ever noticed how much plastic is in a modern car?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MhzNjYiSo

Edited by skyrover on Friday 25th April 21:44

[anonymous-user]

The guy in that video certainly likes to shout.

[skyrover]

DR10 said:

The guy in that video certainly likes to shout.

He comes across as bonkers, but have a poke through his other video's... he knows what he's talking about when it comes to cars.

I think he had a TV spot at one time.

[GroundEffect]

No, it's called bad design. That's why Kias are 'bargains'.

Any company worth their salt would want a car to be rust-free for 10 years.

[lexusboy]

There is a difference between rust and surface corrosion

[Toaster Pilot]

lexusboy said:

There is a difference between rust and surface corrosion

Yeah, a couple of years / xx,000 miles

[longshot]

skyrover said:

Ever noticed how much plastic is in a modern car?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MhzNjYiSo

Edited by skyrover on Friday 25th April 21:44

The points he makes in the video are all complete bks.

[Debaser]

You're being too cynical. Kia would delete that plastic panel if they thought they could, and keep the cost saving.

[skyrover]

longshot said:

skyrover said:

Ever noticed how much plastic is in a modern car?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MhzNjYiSo

Edited by skyrover on Friday 25th April 21:44

The points he makes in the video are all complete bks.

your going to have to elaborate on that one... otherwise your talking bks

[Toaster Pilot]

Debaser said:

You're being too cynical. Kia would delete that plastic panel if they thought they could, and keep the cost saving.

It is held on by about 6 bolts so you might be right

I am impressed by the lack of Torx fkwittery though, seems to be all standard size hex bolts !

[The Nur]

Toaster Pilot said:

Debaser said:

You're being too cynical. Kia would delete that plastic panel if they thought they could, and keep the cost saving.

It is held on by about 6 bolts so you might be right

I am impressed by the lack of Torx fkwittery though, seems to be all standard size hex bolts !

Always gives me a nice warm feeling when I realise there are no Torx bits. I'm not even sure why, I think they give me French flashbacks.

[kambites]

You'll find the same on almost all modern cars. I helped replace one of the power steering pipes on a friend's SAAB recently and it's exactly the same - small, apparently pointless plastic covers under the cross-members which get covered in leaves and mud and stuff over the years, which then trap water against the metal (in this case of both the cross-member itself and the power steering pipe) which starts to rust.

[Rich_W]

skyrover said:

longshot said:

skyrover said:

Ever noticed how much plastic is in a modern car?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MhzNjYiSo

Edited by skyrover on Friday 25th April 21:44

The points he makes in the video are all complete bks.

your going to have to elaborate on that one... otherwise your talking bks

I'll do it.

Point 1. Firstly bumpers are not for bumping into things. We don't park by FEEL! Secondly all car have metal bumpers, they are hidden behind the bumper covers for ascetic reasons.


X3

Point 2. Plastic components. Plastic is not like play dough anymore. Different strengths for different applications. You don't need a inlet manifold to be metal it doesn't get hot. And plastic is generally lighter hence better mpg. And given there are still thousands of 10+ year old BMW's (and other manufactuers) cars running around quite happily with plastic inlets and additional air pumps fitted suggests his failure rate is way off. How many METAL built 1970s cars do you see on the roads?

Point 3. Radiator attachments. Current clip types are faster and easier to remove. Don't leak and remove the risk of crushing a radiator outlet by wking a jubilee clip up so tight. Again. Plastic in this area will be the right type

Point 4. Plastic door handles. Well who cares? They don't break off in your hand like he suggests. Should they make them from titanium for 4 times the cost instead?. As for the painting angle. Even metal door handles can be colour coded.

Point 5. Cost. Yep. Plastic is cheaper than metal. If the rad on that E30 lasted near 30 years you'd be amazed. But then I don't see metal washing machines lasting 10 years let alone 30. You can knock a plastic manifold up in an hour with the right machine. Should we pay that same operator 4 hours to make the same thing from metal? The buyer will be happy to pay the extra cost won't they?

Point 6. If you break plastic parts every time you work on your car. You're just a st "mechanic"

Guy is a typical Yank loon

Judging from the car at the beginning he probably refers to BMW as "imports" :clown:

Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 26th April 11:05

[skyrover]

Rich_W said:

I'll do it.

Point 1. Firstly bumpers are not for bumping into things. We don't park by FEEL! Secondly all car have metal bumpers, they are hidden behind the bumper covers for ascetic reasons.

Does it matter if there is a metal bar behind the plastic cover? your still looking at big repair bills when the plastic cracks... his point stands.

Rich_W said:

Point 2. Plastic components. Plastic is not like play dough anymore. Different strengths for different applications. You don't need a inlet manifold to be metal it doesn't get hot. And plastic is generally lighter hence better mpg. And given there are still thousands of 10+ year old BMW's (and other manufactuers) cars running around quite happily with plastic inlets and additional air pumps fitted suggests his failure rate is way off. How many METAL built 1970s cars do you see on the roads?

Plastic gets hot, cracks and fails... nature of the beast, it does not matter if some plastics take longer than others to fail.
How many 2010 car's will still be on the road in 2040? A lot less than 1970's car's today I will wager.

Rich_W said:

Point 3. Radiator attachments. Current clip types are faster and easier to remove. Don't leak and remove the risk of crushing a radiator outlet by wking a jubilee clip up so tight. Again. Plastic in this area will be the right type

That is the fault of the "mechanic", not the tool. Metal clips are superior and wont snap, leaving you with a big bill.

Rich_W said:

Point 4. Plastic door handles. Well who cares? They don't break off in your hand like he suggests. Should they make them from titanium for 4 times the cost instead?. As for the painting angle. Even metal door handles can be colour coded.

Plastic door handles break more easily than metal ones, his point stands

Rich_W said:

Point 5. Cost. Yep. Plastic is cheaper than metal. If the rad on that E30 lasted near 30 years you'd be amazed. But then I don't see metal washing machines lasting 10 years let alone 30. You can knock a plastic manifold up in an hour with the right machine. Should we pay that same operator 4 hours to make the same thing from metal? The buyer will be happy to pay the extra cost won't they?

The public, buy and large do not care until it hits them in the wallet. Unfortunately most don't look far enough ahead to see the problems.
Just because people are ignorant, does not make them correct.

Rich_W said:

Point 6. If you break plastic parts every time you work on your car. You're just a st "mechanic"

yes I'm sure you have never snapped plastic clips off

Rich_W said:

Guy is a typical Yank loon

An unnecessary straw man and labels you as a bit of a cock unfortunately

Rich_W said:

Judging from the car at the beginning he probably refers to BMW as "imports" :clown:

Well even if he did, he would be correct.

[Monkeylegend]

So would you buy another one if you think that is the case?

Doesn't seem like a very clever marketing ploy to me.

[longshot]

His point about steel v plastic bumpers doesn't stand.

It is complete bks because they have no choice about whether to use plastic or steel.

They have to use plastic because they have to be designed to reduce injury to pedestrians.

If you are prepared to defend his opinion despite this obvious reason I'm not going to bother with your other points.

[skyrover]

longshot said:

They have to use plastic because they have to be designed to reduce injury to pedestrians.

If you are prepared to defend his opinion despite this obvious reason I'm not going to bother with your other points.

That's a solid metal bumper

Yes I understand it will probably be plastic in the new defender, but they have been fitting plastic bumpers to cars since the 90's when pedestrian safety was "don't walk in the road"

[Monkeylegend]

skyrover said:

longshot said:

They have to use plastic because they have to be designed to reduce injury to pedestrians.

If you are prepared to defend his opinion despite this obvious reason I'm not going to bother with your other points.

That's a solid metal bumper

Yes I understand it will probably be plastic in the new defender, but they have been fitting plastic bumpers to cars since the 90's when pedestrian safety was "don't walk in the road"

I know I probably shouldn't but I really like that.

[longshot]

skyrover said:

longshot said:

They have to use plastic because they have to be designed to reduce injury to pedestrians.

If you are prepared to defend his opinion despite this obvious reason I'm not going to bother with your other points.

That's a solid metal bumper

Yes I understand it will probably be plastic in the new defender, but they have been fitting plastic bumpers to cars since the 90's when pedestrian safety was "don't walk in the road"

But blokeys argument involves a 5 year old car not a 90s car.