All new cars to have black box trackers fitted.

[backwoodsman]

They are claiming that these new black boxes are only to help in an emergency.

But It looks more like a back door way towards 100% tracking of all cars.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2625244/EU...

[Jasandjules]

EU wants road pricing. They spent a lot of money on it, need to get it back somehow.

[anonymous-user]

That's not how they work, they activate in a crash and automatically call the emergency services with a GPS location fix. They don't report back to some "central database" with the movements of every car.

The story is wrong on many levels "sends a signal via satellite" FFS

Not saying that something like that isn't technically feasible in future, but this isn't it.

[Jasandjules]

That isn't how they "currently" work. That does not mean that is not what they will change them to do. It is small steps towards road pricing by the back door so people don't notice.

[backwoodsman]

Jasandjules said:

That isn't how they "currently" work. That does not mean that is not what they will change them to do. It is small steps towards road pricing by the back door so people don't notice.

Precisely.

[1878]

FFS, it's the Daily Mail. Anyone would think that European Elections are coming up and they have an anti-EU agenda to push.

Next week's headlines: "Black Boxes give you cancer", "Black Boxes Impact On House Prices", "Black Boxes The Fault of Single Mothers/Immigrants/Benefit Scroungers" and "Black Boxes Cure Cancer"

[HTP99]

From what I understand many new modern cars pretty much have the capability already it just isn't activated.

[anonymous-user]

So who pays for the mobile data subscription that is required for such a tracking device to report back to base? Pretty hard to sneak something like that through the back door when the owner has to pay a fee to be tracked.

This has been rumbling on for the best part of a decade.

The actual website which describes the system:

http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/ecall-time-s...

A couple of key quotes:
"In case of a crash, an eCall-equipped car automatically calls the nearest emergency centre. Even if no passenger is able to speak, e.g. due to injuries, a 'Minimum Set of Data' is sent, which includes the exact location of the crash site."
And
" As eCall normally 'sleeps', it does not allow vehicle tracking outside emergencies."

In summary: the Daily Mail is a rag which relies on lowest common denominator scare stories that purposefully twist the facts to keep their readers in a perpetual state of fear to suit it's long term political aims and survive as a "newspaper"

[Dave Hedgehog]

charltjr said:

So who pays for the mobile data subscription that is required for such a tracking device to report back to base? Pretty hard to sneak something like that through the back door when the owner has to pay a fee to be tracked.

the same person who pays for the emergency call feature, its a small charge to the manufacturer when they purchase the unit

it would be incredibly easy to switch this to road pricing, GPS speed limiting or automatic speed fines and the amount of data sent to log all your driving activities would be very tiny

our government would be very pro this constant tracking after all they already log and store everybody's journeys on main roads for 5 years

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Sunday 11th May 08:21

[snoopy25]

FFS!

I hope this never sees the light of day! I dont want to be tracked full stop. Next step will be automatic fines for going over the speed limits as well. Looks like cars from 2014 and under is the route for me then when i need to change my car

[Crafty_]

Whilst it is a DM story I do not trust the EU in any way, just because the device is crash activated at the moment don't for a minute be fooled, it'd be a simple software change to have it report data whilst in normal operation.

[Welshbeef]

What is wrong with road pricing?

I choose the M6 toll happy to pay the fee - why? Because the countless times pre M6 Toll we were in gridlock it was always a novelty to pass by without traffic issues now problem solved.



However road pricing may force articulated vehicles to use the main routes outside of rush hours.


Is add car sharing is becoming more and more popular with companies - if you car share you get a parking spot closer to the office also 50% of the fuel costs over a year plus potentially doubling the road capacity without spending anything.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Welshbeef said:

What is wrong with road pricing?

I choose the M6 toll happy to pay the fee - why? Because the countless times pre M6 Toll we were in gridlock it was always a novelty to pass by without traffic issues now problem solved.



However road pricing may force articulated vehicles to use the main routes outside of rush hours.


Is add car sharing is becoming more and more popular with companies - if you car share you get a parking spot closer to the office also 50% of the fuel costs over a year plus potentially doubling the road capacity without spending anything.

im sure the rich will be happy to pay for it

the rest of us are sick to death with being treated as a cash cow with rip off fuel duty, VED, scamera and parking fines etc, doubly so when very little of it goes back into maintain the roads

an extra tax is not welcome

[Welshbeef]

Dave Hedgehog said:

im sure the rich will be happy to pay for it

the rest of us are sick to death with being treated as a cash cow with rip off fuel duty, VED, scamera and parking fines etc, doubly so when very little of it goes back into maintain the roads

an extra tax is not welcome

But cars will become electric as such fuel duty will vanish so road pricing seems the sensible route

[Crafty_]

Welshbeef said:

But cars will become electric as such fuel duty will vanish so road pricing seems the sensible route

imho electric cars are just a stopgap. I don't think its a sustainable fuel source.

[Welshbeef]

Crafty_ said:

imho electric cars are just a stopgap. I don't think its a sustainable fuel source.

Pure electric a stopgap?
This loads the govts up to build nuclear power and green energy.

[Buff Mchugelarge]

- Reads thread title 'Hmm..interesting..'

- Reads first post 'surely not?.. '

- See Daily Mail link closes thread.

[powerstroke]

1878 said:

FFS, it's the Daily Mail. Anyone would think that European Elections are coming up and they have an anti-EU agenda to push.

Next week's headlines: "Black Boxes give you cancer", "Black Boxes Impact On House Prices", "Black Boxes The Fault of Single Mothers/Immigrants/Benefit Scroungers" and "Black Boxes Cure Cancer"

Yes that's why they are anti UKIP!! Out of EU =out of new mad headlines
However I think road pricing will come sooner rather than later, due to lack of investment in roads and electric cars.

[Dodsy]

Dave Hedgehog said:

the same person who pays for the emergency call feature, its a small charge to the manufacturer when they purchase the unit

it would be incredibly easy to switch this to road pricing, GPS speed limiting or automatic speed fines and the amount of data sent to log all your driving activities would be very tiny

our government would be very pro this constant tracking after all they already log and store everybody's journeys on main roads for 5 years

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Sunday 11th May 08:21

There is no fee for the emergency call feature. Any phone can make an emergency call on any network for no fee. As long as the phone has battery power it can do this, its a feature of the mobile network. For example, I am on vodafone but am getting 'no service' . I dial 999 or 112 and the phone will search for any network and if there is one that it can see , maybe for example Orange then it is allowed to make the call on that network despite me not being a subscriber.

So given that, then there is no contract or agreement then as it stands I dont see how these embedded chips could be used for sending any data other than in an emergency. There is a 'but' though - nothing to stop a manufacturer striking a deal with a mobile operator to enable the sending of data from those chips for their own purposes although I think it might need you as the car owner to agree to allow it to be turned on.

ETA: Hmm seems I wasnt quite right when I typed the above, it seems in the UK this feature doesnt work. Everywhere else in the world you dont even need a SIM in the phone you can always make an emergency call as this is part of the GSM standard. But it seems that here in the UK unless you are actually paying a mobile operator you cant make an emergency call. I suspect that any plans to implement this emergency calling havent considered this fact as the UK is different to the rest of the world.

Edited by Dodsy on Sunday 11th May 09:45

[johnfm]

Welshbeef said:

But cars will become electric as such fuel duty will vanish so road pricing seems the sensible route

What makes you think there is a link between fuel duty and money spent on roads? Just goes into the general pot doesn't it?