Monday 12th May 2014

£220K for a 964 RS

It's not just the media raving about old 911s; now collectors want to know too

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The headline for this story could have featured all manner of amazing results from RM Auctions' Monaco sale on Saturday. As well as the above 911, there was a Lancia Flaminia Sport that made 571,200 euros (£465,528), a 728,000-euro (£593,320) Toyota 2000GT and a Mercedes 300SL AMG Gullwing that sold at 812,000 euros (£661,780).

The auction's cheapest car, at 17K euros

But with air-cooled 911 values seemingly without a price ceiling at present, some further investigation seemed appropriate. Speaking to Neil at The Hairpin Company, who actually saw the RM 911 RS, reveals the insatiable demand for 911s. He was "not at all surprised" at the money made by the three-owner car given its exceptional condition. And why are they commanding so much? Usability. "You could have bought that 911 and driven it home without thinking too much of it," says Neil, "which you couldn't have with many of the other exotics in the auction." Indeed, such is the market appetite for special 911s that cars are being sold at Hairpin without advertising. Following the climb in Ferrari and Aston values, Neil believes Porsche is experiencing a similar resurgence. Dealers are clamouring to get the right cars apparently...

The last Apera made and now a £565K car

An interesting pair of modern Ferraris were sold at Monaco too with very different final prices. A 599 GTO made 358,400 euros (£292,096), a car that was £305,676 new in 2012. A mechanically similar but even rarer SA Aperta (80 cars made against GTO) made a staggering 694,400 (£565,936) euros , compared to £360,000 new. Still, that seems almost affordable for an open V12 Ferrari when a 330 GTS made over 2 million euros.

The full catalogue of results is here but it certainly appears that values are still strong for the right classic cars. Following the $52m 250 GTO last year, it was suggested the classic car bubble may not last much longer. Saturday's lots raised a total of 41 million euros though, with very few unsold cars, so it seems there's still demand for now.

There was some PH interest in Saturday's sale too as we've recently featured a few of the cars being sold. The De Tomaso Pantera Keith was lusting over recently actually sold in the lower end of its estimate at 56,000 euros (£45,640), actually one of the more affordable lots from the sale. Its Mangusta brother that starred as POTW made 268,800 euros (£219,072), exactly the same as the 911 RS. The next sale is Motor City in July; there are already a few lots listed...

[Images: RM Auctions]

[Fastdruid]

Same with anything, supply and demand and I don't suppose there are too many left that haven't visited the scenery backwards. ;-)

[moribund]

At first glance I mistook the beige Fiat for a Triumph Acclaim

[andyps]

The Fiat 130 Coupe looks a bargain compared to some of the others!

[Oz83]

PH Article said:

And why are they commanding so much? Usability. "You could have bought that 911 and driven it home without thinking too much of it,"

And that's probably the last time it will be driven. Who buys an appreciating classic then drives it?

[crosseyedlion]

I do think classic prices now are getting daft.

Whilst I appreciate supply and demand, when the price is reaching significantly more than the price of the sum of its parts or the price an exact recreation could be made for, its too much.

A similar ridiculous situation is happening with London Property.

Its all willy waving, people wanting to show off that they can afford to pay more for something than the next man. When money isn't generally earn't but gifted by family or luck (im thinking Russian captains of industry)there will be no rational thinking, only willy waving.

For something like a 964, anyone with an ounce of morality/sense would build an absolutely identical one (or just pay less) and donate the rest to worthy charities.

Blimey, I sound like a lefty :/

[OlberJ]

Holy smokes.

[Davey S2]

Some blue chip cars aside It's a very brave or very rich buyer who is purchasing at the moment IMO

[Dave Hedgehog]

crosseyedlion said:

I do think classic prices now are getting daft.

the bubble will crash and a lot of people are going to loose an awful lot of money

[s2000db]

Dave Hedgehog said:

crosseyedlion said:

I do think classic prices now are getting daft.

the bubble will crash and a lot of people are going to loose an awful lot of money

Yup, people are paying far too much for a pile of ferrous oxide..! (As it will inevitably become..)

[365daytonafan]

Oz83 said:

PH Article said:

And why are they commanding so much? Usability. "You could have bought that 911 and driven it home without thinking too much of it,"

And that's probably the last time it will be driven. Who buys an appreciating classic then drives it?

My Daytona is worth five times what it was when I got it ten years ago but I drive it more now than I did then. It is perversely easier to justify as repair costs are now a much smaller percentage of the cars value. Sticking a few thousand miles a year on it won't change the value of it much either although in the case of the 964RS I suspect the premium is due to it being low mileage.

I maybe an exception though as I don't plan on ever selling it and will leave it for my kids in my will.

[MC Bodge]

It reminds me of this:

[MC Bodge]

crosseyedlion said:

A similar ridiculous situation is happening with London Property.

....again

[retrorider]

And dont forget to add the 12% buyers premium...

[crostonian]

I can see the value in most classic cars but I just don't get it with the 964RS. It was lambasted when new, it was from a very low point in Porsche history, it looks virtually identical to the regular 964 Coupe, it doesn't cost much to replicate one from a standard car and it's race history was virtually confined to a one make series.

Yes it's air cooled and it is called a Carrera RS, the holy grail for Porsche fans it seems, but does that make it worth £200K or did someone just get a bit carried away?

[crostonian]

retrorider said:

And dont forget to add the 12% buyers premium...

The £220k for the RS includes the premium

[The Pits]

crostonian said:

I can see the value in most classic cars but I just don't get it with the 964RS. It was lambasted when new, it was from a very low point in Porsche history, it looks virtually identical to the regular 964 Coupe, it doesn't cost much to replicate one from a standard car and it's race history was virtually confined to a one make series.

Yes it's air cooled and it is called a Carrera RS, the holy grail for Porsche fans it seems, but does that make it worth £200K or did someone just get a bit carried away?

My thoughts exactly. It's not even the last or the 'ultimate' air-cooled RS, which was the 993 RS.

Don't get the market at all. I wish I did, I'd have bought a warehouse full of 964 RS's and would have had no interest in driving any of them!

Richard Meaden has got one hasn't he? It sounds unpleasantly hard riding from what I have read. If I were him I'd be on the phone to RM Auctions without delay!

[LotusOmega375D]

MC Bodge said:

It reminds me of this:

Is that Lord "Chopper" Brockett? He'd wished he had kept his 250GT Cabriolet in one (large) piece, if he knew what that one fetched in Monaco on Saturday night.

[Mermaid]

Will the Hairpin Company offer me £180k for my 3 owner 964RS?

[Ares]

The Pits said:

crostonian said:

I can see the value in most classic cars but I just don't get it with the 964RS. It was lambasted when new, it was from a very low point in Porsche history, it looks virtually identical to the regular 964 Coupe, it doesn't cost much to replicate one from a standard car and it's race history was virtually confined to a one make series.

Yes it's air cooled and it is called a Carrera RS, the holy grail for Porsche fans it seems, but does that make it worth £200K or did someone just get a bit carried away?

My thoughts exactly. It's not even the last or the 'ultimate' air-cooled RS, which was the 993 RS.

Don't get the market at all. I wish I did, I'd have bought a warehouse full of 964 RS's and would have had no interest in driving any of them!

Richard Meaden has got one hasn't he? It sounds unpleasantly hard riding from what I have read. If I were him I'd be on the phone to RM Auctions without delay!

Good pal of mine had a 993RS, did 30,000 in it (1997-1999) then sold it, swapping it for a 964RS (RubyStone Red, aka Pink).

I've driven both, track and road, including RMA days at the Nurburgring. Have to say, the 964 is the nicer drive. Feels like a tank, drives like a featherweight race car. Beautiful.

[anonymous-user]

"You can only hear sound of the st hitting the fan because the music has stopped". Madness. Dearie me. Carbon copy of last time.