Friend has driving phobia.....
Discussion
Well he is a member of my wife's family actually, but because he is such a cracking bloke he has become a good mate of mine.
He is the sort of guy you really want in your corner. A background in heavy industry means he's a pretty tough and (apart from this problem) fearless bloke. Tile off on the roof of his house? He'll hop up and fix it. Need a shed built? Go and make him cup of tea and by the time its brewed it will be up. Fancy a few beers and a good laugh at life, he is the man. He is about 60 now but one imagines that in his younger days he'd have been the sort of fella you'd want with you in a dark alley if a mugger struck.
There is one thing that appears to scare the crap out of him. Driving to a new place. He's fine in the town he lives in, and the village 10 miles away where he grew up. He can make it to our house, maybe 25 miles away, but only on a long tortuous route avoiding any dual carriageway, roundabouts, flyovers etc. He will not drive into the nearest big city.
This means that though he would love our little holiday home in Scotland, he won't ever go there. He declines the offer of being taken there - because I think that would mean he would know the way and have less excuse to say no in future, as he would know the way.
I did think there was method in his madness. He is the only one in his side of the family who drives - aged in laws don't anymore, his wife doesn't so he is used as the family taxi service for local shopping and the like. I don't think he likes it, and imagined his reluctance to drive into the city or to our place in Scotland was down to not wanting to be co-opted into driving his family round on a holiday filled with tea rooms and visits to woollen mills. Who can blame him.
Then this weekend, when I saw him, I casually asked him a favour. Not much, but I asked if he would give me a lift to somewhere not more than 3 miles outside his comfort zone. It was something I thought he might enjoy, being the DIY chap he is. I have found an MG in a scrap yard and can have a bit I want off it for next to nowt - If I take it myself. Seeing as he has every tool under the sun - and knows how to use them - I thought he would be well up for it.
He agreed, no probs.
The next day, early on he called me with the lamest excuse in the world as to why he could not take me. He told me I could borrow his tools, and he would talk me through taking the bit off the car. I kind of expected him to cry off - so no harm done. I'll just try and get another mate to help me.
It has a knock-on effect in his life too. He is recently retired but remains a qualified bus driver. He only drove local busses though. Last year a friend who owns a coach firm offered him what seems like a pleasant job of driving a coach out on trips to local sites, castles etc. The answer was "no" When another guy he knew offered him the chance of a bit of summer work driving a coach in Cyprus or Malta - with free summer accommodation for him and his wife - well you can guess his response.
I don't want to bully this guy, but I would love him to overcome this weird phobia or lack of confidence over driving to new places. He loves his wildlife, especially wild birds. The other day I was at our place in Scotland and while outside having a beer an Oyster Catcher came to within a few feet of me. We are right on a bay. There is I think a Harris Hawk that rocks up now and then and Buzzards often hang round the edge of the woods at the back. When the Canada Geese migrate in their thousands it is a wondrous sight. This place would be heaven for him, and he is missing out on so much.
I've tried talking to him about it, bringing it up casually in conversation....but he is an expert at changing the subject.
He is the sort of guy you really want in your corner. A background in heavy industry means he's a pretty tough and (apart from this problem) fearless bloke. Tile off on the roof of his house? He'll hop up and fix it. Need a shed built? Go and make him cup of tea and by the time its brewed it will be up. Fancy a few beers and a good laugh at life, he is the man. He is about 60 now but one imagines that in his younger days he'd have been the sort of fella you'd want with you in a dark alley if a mugger struck.
There is one thing that appears to scare the crap out of him. Driving to a new place. He's fine in the town he lives in, and the village 10 miles away where he grew up. He can make it to our house, maybe 25 miles away, but only on a long tortuous route avoiding any dual carriageway, roundabouts, flyovers etc. He will not drive into the nearest big city.
This means that though he would love our little holiday home in Scotland, he won't ever go there. He declines the offer of being taken there - because I think that would mean he would know the way and have less excuse to say no in future, as he would know the way.
I did think there was method in his madness. He is the only one in his side of the family who drives - aged in laws don't anymore, his wife doesn't so he is used as the family taxi service for local shopping and the like. I don't think he likes it, and imagined his reluctance to drive into the city or to our place in Scotland was down to not wanting to be co-opted into driving his family round on a holiday filled with tea rooms and visits to woollen mills. Who can blame him.
Then this weekend, when I saw him, I casually asked him a favour. Not much, but I asked if he would give me a lift to somewhere not more than 3 miles outside his comfort zone. It was something I thought he might enjoy, being the DIY chap he is. I have found an MG in a scrap yard and can have a bit I want off it for next to nowt - If I take it myself. Seeing as he has every tool under the sun - and knows how to use them - I thought he would be well up for it.
He agreed, no probs.
The next day, early on he called me with the lamest excuse in the world as to why he could not take me. He told me I could borrow his tools, and he would talk me through taking the bit off the car. I kind of expected him to cry off - so no harm done. I'll just try and get another mate to help me.
It has a knock-on effect in his life too. He is recently retired but remains a qualified bus driver. He only drove local busses though. Last year a friend who owns a coach firm offered him what seems like a pleasant job of driving a coach out on trips to local sites, castles etc. The answer was "no" When another guy he knew offered him the chance of a bit of summer work driving a coach in Cyprus or Malta - with free summer accommodation for him and his wife - well you can guess his response.
I don't want to bully this guy, but I would love him to overcome this weird phobia or lack of confidence over driving to new places. He loves his wildlife, especially wild birds. The other day I was at our place in Scotland and while outside having a beer an Oyster Catcher came to within a few feet of me. We are right on a bay. There is I think a Harris Hawk that rocks up now and then and Buzzards often hang round the edge of the woods at the back. When the Canada Geese migrate in their thousands it is a wondrous sight. This place would be heaven for him, and he is missing out on so much.
I've tried talking to him about it, bringing it up casually in conversation....but he is an expert at changing the subject.
There's two paths you could go down, and although you can do both, it'll be difficult to find overlap between them.
One is something like cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT), if it's primarily an anxiety disorder, and I suspect it is.
The other is practical training, like IAM or perhaps something better geared towards his specific issue. This could benefit anyone, but may not yield very much if it's a deep seated psychological issue. Unless you find something bespoke, it would also not be handled by any kind of expert in handling anxiety, and has the potential to go wrong (not as in a crash, but as in a bad experience). That said, I sat in on an IAM session where an elderly lady went on the motorway for the first time in her life - apprehensive, but fine.
The trouble you have is that both approaches require a willing patient who has identified a need for change. Have you tried directly exploring it with him?
What's he like as a passenger?
Have you considered that it might have nothing to do with driving, and more to do with being away from home/the familiar?
One is something like cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT), if it's primarily an anxiety disorder, and I suspect it is.
The other is practical training, like IAM or perhaps something better geared towards his specific issue. This could benefit anyone, but may not yield very much if it's a deep seated psychological issue. Unless you find something bespoke, it would also not be handled by any kind of expert in handling anxiety, and has the potential to go wrong (not as in a crash, but as in a bad experience). That said, I sat in on an IAM session where an elderly lady went on the motorway for the first time in her life - apprehensive, but fine.
The trouble you have is that both approaches require a willing patient who has identified a need for change. Have you tried directly exploring it with him?
What's he like as a passenger?
Have you considered that it might have nothing to do with driving, and more to do with being away from home/the familiar?
Edited by trashbat on Tuesday 13th May 09:30
Phobias are difficult to overcome, and will require an immense effort by him, accompanied by large amounts of stress. Why put him through that unless he really wants to overcome it? He seems happy where he is, and for holidays he can use coaches, trains and taxis.
If you want him to see your place in the wilds, take him there for a few days and drive him round, otherwise there are plenty of organised twitching trips he could go on. He doesn't seem to want to change, since he refuses to discuss it, so why press the issue?
If you want him to see your place in the wilds, take him there for a few days and drive him round, otherwise there are plenty of organised twitching trips he could go on. He doesn't seem to want to change, since he refuses to discuss it, so why press the issue?
Worst I've got a second home thread ever, I am sure I have seen you mention it in another thread within the last few days too :-)
My MIL is much the same, she can drive but chooses not to and genuinely thinks she would get lost on the way to our house which is 5 mins away and she is there three times a week for childcare.
We have another family friend who is the same and has a TT but has never driven it - I have driven it more than she has! We have tried and suggested she has some more lessons as probably best to have a pro in the passenger seat.
You can only do so much, maybe an actual gentle confrontation about it rather than more subtle attempts to coerce, you may be misinterpreting the reasons after all.
My MIL is much the same, she can drive but chooses not to and genuinely thinks she would get lost on the way to our house which is 5 mins away and she is there three times a week for childcare.
We have another family friend who is the same and has a TT but has never driven it - I have driven it more than she has! We have tried and suggested she has some more lessons as probably best to have a pro in the passenger seat.
You can only do so much, maybe an actual gentle confrontation about it rather than more subtle attempts to coerce, you may be misinterpreting the reasons after all.
He is fine as a passenger and a very cautious driver. He drives his car like I guess you would drive a bus, taking things wide and feeding the wheel in a kind of shuffling way.
I wonder if it is a fear of cars. I just remembered a few years ago we were going to Hammerite bits under one of my MGs and he produced a pair of ramps to get the back end up. I had to put it on the ramps even though I'd never done it before.
CBT would e the answer but I think the chance of getting a six foot plus built like a brick s
thouse ex-coal miner to admit to having a problem is slim indeed.
I pray we never have to find out, but I wonder what would happen if he had to make an unfamilliar journey for something like a family emergency.
I wonder if it is a fear of cars. I just remembered a few years ago we were going to Hammerite bits under one of my MGs and he produced a pair of ramps to get the back end up. I had to put it on the ramps even though I'd never done it before.
CBT would e the answer but I think the chance of getting a six foot plus built like a brick s
thouse ex-coal miner to admit to having a problem is slim indeed.I pray we never have to find out, but I wonder what would happen if he had to make an unfamilliar journey for something like a family emergency.
Abit like my dad, who is 64 now. He'll do anything to avoid driving on the motor way and when I passed he tried to rub his fear off on to me. For a while it worked, then one night I just grabbed the car keys jumped onto the M62 and drove until I got lost (accidently), wet myself (not literally 
) and found my way back home.
Fear confronted and it never bothered me again. Old man is too stubborn for that though.
) and found my way back home. Fear confronted and it never bothered me again. Old man is too stubborn for that though.
My Dad is similar, but not with new route - its rush hour / traffic. He seems to hate it so much he simply refuses to do it and seems to get quite agitated if an arrangement means he might encounter it! To the point I'm sure it could be classed as a phobia..
He's rather set off at 4.30am and get somewhere 3 hours early!
We don't push the subject though. Even when younger he always had a hint of 'Falling Down' about him
He's rather set off at 4.30am and get somewhere 3 hours early!
We don't push the subject though. Even when younger he always had a hint of 'Falling Down' about him
I was very nervous after an accident at the end of last year. Nothing I could have done to avoid it after being hit by someone who joined a roundabout without looking. I'm much better now but I still don't trust other drivers (probably shouldn't anyway) and I certainly allow more room on junctions and roundabouts. I did used to put off driving if I could, but I'm making a concious effort to go out as much as possible.
An accident really can stay with you. Is it possible he had an accident years ago and never really allowed himself to "get back on the horse"?
An accident really can stay with you. Is it possible he had an accident years ago and never really allowed himself to "get back on the horse"?
[quote=R6VED]Worst I've got a second home thread ever, I am sure I have seen you mention it in another thread within the last few days too :-)
Yeah it was in the "Should I buy and old Bentley or an old Aston thread." Pretentious, Moi? :-)
I think it is probably best not to make a big deal out of it. Maybe continue to coax him.
Phobias are bloody strange. If your house was on fire, He'd steam in there to rescue your dog. If you asked him to crawl on his hands and knees in a 3 foot coal seam in the dark with planet earth resting on nothing more than some bits of wood - he'd be the first in there, yet ask him to drive to a breakers yard maybe 20 miles from home on the edge of an industrial estate and it aint going to happen.
Still when I do recover the bit off the scrap car, and get it painted he's drilling the bodywork on my MG to fit it!
Yeah it was in the "Should I buy and old Bentley or an old Aston thread." Pretentious, Moi? :-)
I think it is probably best not to make a big deal out of it. Maybe continue to coax him.
Phobias are bloody strange. If your house was on fire, He'd steam in there to rescue your dog. If you asked him to crawl on his hands and knees in a 3 foot coal seam in the dark with planet earth resting on nothing more than some bits of wood - he'd be the first in there, yet ask him to drive to a breakers yard maybe 20 miles from home on the edge of an industrial estate and it aint going to happen.
Still when I do recover the bit off the scrap car, and get it painted he's drilling the bodywork on my MG to fit it!
Right, so s few points that I probably won't articulate well:
- You probably don't know what the root cause is, or even what the problem is. She gives the example of 'someone afraid to leave the house'. Now you might think, easy, agoraphobia, but it could be a bunch of other specific things; PTSD, OCD, depression, social anxiety (e.g. fear of people looking at you), even stuff like vomit phobia. In your case you probably have a better idea than some, but it doesn't mean it's an accurate assessment, and the truth would only come out in therapy
- Getting over a fear by changing your beliefs is called disconfirmation, and often you can do this by tackling the problem (e.g. driving on a motorway without incident); however there's a feedback loop here in that your beliefs stop you even trying that. Again, therapy!
- The whole hard-as-nails miner thing is a barrier; it might be unintentional, it might be a front, it might be somewhere in between, yet either way it serves to deter friends like you from helping you out - but it shouldn't, so...
- ...it's difficult to intervene and turn an unwilling patient into the necessary willing one, but armed with a plan, you might get somewhere. Maybe something along the lines of, "you're a really good friend and I can see this is causing you trouble - there's this possible answer I think you should try"
- This is the sort of thing that doesn't take very long to treat, maybe 6 or 7 sessions (I think an hour each)
My own opinion is that you sound like a great friend for him to have, and vice versa. Time is precious and it's really quite sad that he's missing out on the experiences you describe, so even though it's personally tricky and requires care, I think tackling it will likely reap rewards. Good luck!
- You probably don't know what the root cause is, or even what the problem is. She gives the example of 'someone afraid to leave the house'. Now you might think, easy, agoraphobia, but it could be a bunch of other specific things; PTSD, OCD, depression, social anxiety (e.g. fear of people looking at you), even stuff like vomit phobia. In your case you probably have a better idea than some, but it doesn't mean it's an accurate assessment, and the truth would only come out in therapy
- Getting over a fear by changing your beliefs is called disconfirmation, and often you can do this by tackling the problem (e.g. driving on a motorway without incident); however there's a feedback loop here in that your beliefs stop you even trying that. Again, therapy!
- The whole hard-as-nails miner thing is a barrier; it might be unintentional, it might be a front, it might be somewhere in between, yet either way it serves to deter friends like you from helping you out - but it shouldn't, so...
- ...it's difficult to intervene and turn an unwilling patient into the necessary willing one, but armed with a plan, you might get somewhere. Maybe something along the lines of, "you're a really good friend and I can see this is causing you trouble - there's this possible answer I think you should try"
- This is the sort of thing that doesn't take very long to treat, maybe 6 or 7 sessions (I think an hour each)
My own opinion is that you sound like a great friend for him to have, and vice versa. Time is precious and it's really quite sad that he's missing out on the experiences you describe, so even though it's personally tricky and requires care, I think tackling it will likely reap rewards. Good luck!
Thanks for that insight. And thanks to your OH for taking the trouble to help.
Yes I think I either leave it, or wait 'till we have a few beers and bring it up. I have a bit of a phobia about crowded trains. Maybe not a phobia, but I hate them and will do my best to avoid travelling on them in rush hour. I force myself to address this from time to time though. It might be a bit of a shared thing that I could tease out of him over a beer or two.
One other interesting thing from this thread is that it doesn't appear to be that uncommon to have a big problem with an aspect of driving.
Thanks again.
Yes I think I either leave it, or wait 'till we have a few beers and bring it up. I have a bit of a phobia about crowded trains. Maybe not a phobia, but I hate them and will do my best to avoid travelling on them in rush hour. I force myself to address this from time to time though. It might be a bit of a shared thing that I could tease out of him over a beer or two.
One other interesting thing from this thread is that it doesn't appear to be that uncommon to have a big problem with an aspect of driving.
Thanks again.
Does he actually 'want' to change? If you're right and he's happy with things currently then there isn't really much you can do - and any attempts to "Fix" him probably won't be very warmly received.
If it's something that he wants to get over then he could book a few hours with a driving instructor - there are specialist ones out there that can help with these sorts of issues and it might help him to have some professional guidance.
If it's something that he wants to get over then he could book a few hours with a driving instructor - there are specialist ones out there that can help with these sorts of issues and it might help him to have some professional guidance.
Symbolica said:
Does he actually 'want' to change? If you're right and he's happy with things currently then there isn't really much you can do - and any attempts to "Fix" him probably won't be very warmly received.
Completely agree with the above.You should probably do a lot of soul searching and work out exactly what your motives are before you do anything further.
It sounds like you have a good relationship and you could break it if you make him feel like you think he needs your help.
Pointing out the obvious, I'm sure, but if you ask someone (for example), "are you depressed?", what do you suppose they'll say?
I'm not excluding the possibility that he is genuinely comfortable with everything, or that the OP should definitely interfere, but 'he said he's happy' is not a good indication of very much at all.
I'm not excluding the possibility that he is genuinely comfortable with everything, or that the OP should definitely interfere, but 'he said he's happy' is not a good indication of very much at all.
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