Audi death traps and jumping on bandwagons
Discussion
Alex Dackevych BBC Watchdog on BBC News Website 14 May 2014 said:
A BBC Watchdog investigation into Audi has discovered widespread lying about the safety testing of their vehicles.
Undercover researchers witnessed nine out of 10 dealers from around the country falsely claim the Audi A5 was Euro NCAP safety tested.
But the A5 - as well as the A7, A8 and R8 - are not tested. Audi's UK head office falsely claimed that the entire Audi range was Euro NCAP safety tested.
Audi UK said there had not been any deliberate intent to mislead.
Six of the dealers claimed the Audi A5 had achieved the maximum five stars.
from:Undercover researchers witnessed nine out of 10 dealers from around the country falsely claim the Audi A5 was Euro NCAP safety tested.
But the A5 - as well as the A7, A8 and R8 - are not tested. Audi's UK head office falsely claimed that the entire Audi range was Euro NCAP safety tested.
Audi UK said there had not been any deliberate intent to mislead.
Six of the dealers claimed the Audi A5 had achieved the maximum five stars.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27392157
I'm not sure about those rims, but what a fantastic looking car! The R8 really reminds me of the Miura from that angle.
Alex Dackevych BBC Watchdog on BBC News Website 14 May 2014 said:
When told about Watchdog's findings, Tim Shallcross, a spokesman from the Institute of Advanced Motorists said: "I find it incredible… that a company of the reputation of Audi, and their parent group, the Volkswagen Group can allow their product to be misrepresented so badly in that way.
Thank you Mr Shallcross for reminding me what a good decision I made when I ceased to be a member of your organisation.Who do the IAM think they are? Which? BRAKE!?
What has sales people misrepresenting safety ratings got to do with Advanced Driving?
Perhaps the IAM is no longer about Advanced Driving?
Summer is coming. Perhaps the IAM should remind us again about how we need to remove our sunglasses when entering tunnels?:
http://www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/media-cen...
Another benefit of IAM members removing their sunglasses when entering tunnels is that it'll be easier to spot oncoming bandwagons that they can affix their IAM brand and insignia to.
Because anybody primarily concerned with safety buys an R8 don't they?
The idea that it shares parts of its chassis with the Lamborghini Gallardo is probably a ruse on the part of the evil empire that is VAG. They're really Porsche Carrera GT Widowmakers underneath but with the Electronic Stability Control that the CGT should have had fitted from the outset.
The idea that it shares parts of its chassis with the Lamborghini Gallardo is probably a ruse on the part of the evil empire that is VAG. They're really Porsche Carrera GT Widowmakers underneath but with the Electronic Stability Control that the CGT should have had fitted from the outset.
carinaman said:
Because anybody primarily concerned with safety buys an R8 don't they?
The article is not just about the R8, the A5 for instance hasn't been NCAP tested yet when a selection of Audi salesmen were asked directly if they had, not only did they say yes, they also claimed they gained a 5 star rating.It's a little bit naughty to be fair.
Deerfoot said:
It's a little bit naughty to be fair.
Agreed, it is. But Watchdog previously covered the BMW OBD keyfob reprogramming vulnerability and Thatcham didn't revise or lower their Thatcham security ratings for BMWs stolen via that method. It undermines rating schemes if they're not revised when real world testing by thieves doesn't match Thatcham's Lab Tests.
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Not sure what that issue is with the IAM guy commenting. He was probably asked what he thought, and provided a reasonable response.
The IAM guy's response seems entirely sensible and proportional to me, I'd probably have said much the same if someone had asked me what I thought about it. I'm not entirely surprised to hear of dealers lying about their cars - in my experience most dealers haven't a clue about the cars they're selling, so they might even have thought they were telling the truth. Audi themselves lying about it is somewhat more surprising, though. Either doing so it pretty bad misrepresentation, given that many customers take these things very seriously but wouldn't know how to check the truth of the claims themselves.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th May 08:08
essayer said:
Why do Audi not send their cars to EuroNCAP to be tested? I would have hoped this was all part of the homologation requirements.
The crash tests are not the same for legislative and consumer tests. Audi will most likely know the EuroNCAP scores for all their car variants through computer simulation, but it would be an unnecessary expense to physically crash test them all.essayer said:
Why do Audi not send their cars to EuroNCAP to be tested? I would have hoped this was all part of the homologation requirements.
EuroNCAP's nothing to do with homologation - crash testing is, absolutely, but EuroNCAP is an independent organisation who merely perform their own tests then publish the results - in exchange for a pile of cash from the manufacturer.wemorgan said:
The article missed an opportunity to also mentioned that many RHD variants are not tested, as well as many engine variants.
The EuroNCAP performance is only published for exactly the specification of car tested.
Exactly... If Euro NCAP test a MK7 Golf 1.4 petrol in left hand drive, that is what they tested. It will perform differently to the Golf R which has a different front bumper (will affect pedestrian rating), different engine under the bonnet, different suspension components, different traction control settings. So the NCAP results for the 1.4 petrol give an indication of how the Golf R will perform, but you won't 100% know. The EuroNCAP performance is only published for exactly the specification of car tested.
Also, the NCAP results for frontal impact are based on a 40% overlap, so 40% of the front of your car impacting the stationary barrier. Very few real world accidents will replicate this. A 35% overlap for instance will put loads more stress on the frame of the car, and cars which get 5-stars in the 40% test might not do so well at 35%. Take a look at the US-based IIHS Small Overlap tests on Youtube for an example.
Anyway... the NCAP tests serve a purpose, they allow us to compare two similar models to see how they perform in lab conditions. Just remember that out in the wild laboratory conditions don't exist, and what actually happens might be somewhat different.
TooMany2cvs said:
EuroNCAP's nothing to do with homologation - crash testing is, absolutely, but EuroNCAP is an independent organisation who merely perform their own tests then publish the results - in exchange for a pile of cash from the manufacturer.
Ahh I thought EuroNCAP actually did the independent certifying before the cars went on sale.And, as someone mentioned, it must be possible to computer model accident damage in every potential situation.
So who is responsible for the acceptable performance in a crash test, from a legislative point of view?
So not every version of every model is EuroNCAP tested?
So perhaps the IAM should be more concerned about getting people to improve their driving and then they'll be safer in every vehicle on every road they drive on?
Perhaps safety is about the attitude and abilities of the people driving them?
So perhaps the IAM should be more concerned about getting people to improve their driving and then they'll be safer in every vehicle on every road they drive on?
Perhaps safety is about the attitude and abilities of the people driving them?
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 14th May 09:46
"Death trap" is pushing it just a little!
Well, its heavily based on a model which does have 5 stars. Do any cars currently sold not achieve 5? I would be very surprised if the A5 wouldn't manage it. I imagine sending every niche car through physical testing is just not cost effective.
Well, its heavily based on a model which does have 5 stars. Do any cars currently sold not achieve 5? I would be very surprised if the A5 wouldn't manage it. I imagine sending every niche car through physical testing is just not cost effective.
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