Main dealer charge for investigating problem under warranty?

[JackReacher]

Car has been losing coolant and was at the dealer today to get looked at. They couldn't find any evidence of an external leak so want me to check the rate at which the car is losing coolant over the next 500 miles, which I will happily do.

They said that the next thing for them to check is the EGR as it might be losing coolant internally there. However, they said that it is a big job and that if there is no problem found then I would have to pay for this investigation work. Now, this seems a bit unfair as the car is still within it's 3 year warranty period so I would be expecting Audi to pick up the cost of investigating this, whether that proves correct or not.

Is this normal practice?

[rigga]

EGR exhaust gas recurculation, not normally has coolant anywhere near it?

As for claiming for diagnostics whilst under warranty, that's a new one on me too.

[C. Grimsley]

rigga said:

EGR exhaust gas recurculation, not normally has coolant anywhere near it?

As for claiming for diagnostics whilst under warranty, that's a new one on me too.

Of course it does, most are now water cooled, egr cooler?

Carl

[rigga]

C. Grimsley said:

Of course it does, most are now water cooled, egr cooler?

Carl

Ah ok., not realised they were like that now

[-Z-]

Take it somewhere else and complain to Audi UK.

The car is broken, if they are guessing where the breakage is then that's their problem not yours

[Rich_W]

-Z- said:

Take it somewhere else and complain to Audi UK.

The car is broken, if they are guessing where the breakage is then that's their problem not yours

Yes they are guessing. But until x ray vision becomes standard fit on technicians. They do sometimes need to remove parts to check things. And that takes time and that involves costs. Now it may be that the dealer will not charge the owner. I'd expect them not to) But wouldn't he rather know upfront there's a risk, however small.


For example
In the same way say that if a clutch went on a brand new car inside 5K. Until they can remove the box and look at the thing and then decide if it's just failed because it was made badly. Or whether it's failed because the driver can't do Hill starts so sits riding the clutch everyday. Warranty covers most things. Not all things.

[Mave]

But there's a difference. Warranty not covering a customer induced fault is different to warranty not covering an investigation which can't find the fault.

[Chicane-UK]

I'm going to guess this is not a new car, and is a car on an extended dealer warranty? I had similar when I bought a 2006 Skoda Octavia from a main dealer. Bought the two year warranty package for some peace of mind, and when I had to get something checked out (alternator starting to sound very noisy) I had to pay for an hours diagnosis though the part was of course replaced for free.

Caught me off guard a bit but even that one job paid for the two years worth of warranty so.. worth it.

[gengas]

Mave said:

But there's a difference. Warranty not covering a customer induced fault is different to warranty not covering an investigation which can't find the fault.

this is basically it, since they dont know what the problem is, they cant give you a free diagnostics and risk finding out that its actually your fault the car is broke

what i normally do when have a problem with my car is call the AA, let them do a free diagnostics, then take it to the dealer with their form so they know exactly whats wrong

[Ozzie Osmond]

It's under warranty. If there's a problem - they fix it.

If they say "there isn't a problem" and the car explodes - it becomes their problem!!

[gengas]

Ozzie Osmond said:

It's under warranty. If there's a problem - they fix it.

If they say "there isn't a problem" and the car explodes - it becomes their problem!!

not always, if its a problem that he has obviously caused (as in, they can prove it), then they arent legally obligated to fix anything

same goes if the car explodes and after that they figure out it was all his fault

[Who me ?]

I'd find another garage. Manny/many/many moons ago I bought a few year old Sierra. Suddenly I started loosing coolant. First couple of dealers wanted to charge me to find out where, despite me having a warranty. Then I took it to a main dealer. The bloke on service came out, looked around and diagnosed heater matrix. Warranty- great, they'll be no charge. They were embarrassed to find that warranty did not cover anti freeze, which was discounted on my next service. Then water pump went. Anti freeze was included in charge to warranty company. Next came a small oil leak on the head. Head gasket was replaced as a water based problem after checking T & C of warranty.

[Ozzie Osmond]

gengas said:

not always, if its a problem that he has obviously caused (as in, they can prove it), then they arent legally obligated to fix anything

I await your explanation as to how this owner is going to "cause" an internal coolant leak.....

[gengas]

Ozzie Osmond said:

I await your explanation as to how this owner is going to "cause" an internal coolant leak.....

lol, well you wont get one, as im not a car expert, n i wasnt arguing anything about his 'coolant leak'

i saw someone mention something about whether it was his fault or not, so when i saw your post saying 'its under warranty, if theres a problem, they fix it', which just sounded very broad, i just thought id add it in that it doesn't always work like that - incase you were saying that under the pretence that if a car is under warranty, then theyre obligated to fix it just like that, im not an expert with cars at all, i am an expert in the law though, thats all

[Rich_W]

Ozzie Osmond said:

gengas said:

not always, if its a problem that he has obviously caused (as in, they can prove it), then they arent legally obligated to fix anything

I await your explanation as to how this owner is going to "cause" an internal coolant leak.....

Hypothetical. Probably not the case on the OP.

The garage take the EGR apart and find that a previous owner has "modified it" by smashing the internals out or welded it shut.



Also to everyone else, bear in mind most manufacturer warranty has the stipulation that the dealer retain the parts to (possibly) be inspected by themselves. So if they change something and it's not manufacturer defect they run the risk of not only having the claim rejected completely (even if it cured the fault) and maybe even having a full warranty audit imposed. And that can get expensive for a dealer if they decide to get funny over a missed t or dotted i

[Sir Bagalot]

My car once went in for some work and I also reported that when the air con was on the rear two windows weren't being demisted.

When the bill came they also charged 30mins diag time to investigate the problem reporting that the reason they didn't demist was that the vents were dummy vents I pointed out to them that they were a main dealer for the car in question and suggested that perhaps they should have known they were dummy vents without actually having to investigate.... they dropped the charge

[Davie]

Investigation time will be limited at dealer level. To investigate further, a case would need to be raised with the manufacturer and they would hen instruct the dealer to do X, Y or Z. Perhaps worth noting, the dealer is a franchise so if he spends 6hrs on your car and finds nothing... who covers the bill? The dealer themselves? Audi? You? Somebody has to pay. It's not an open check book industry, under warranty of not.

As for the "Pah, it's under warranty" Errr, no... it's only under warranty once the fault has been identified as being a warranty issue. Until then, technically all work is chargeable to the owner. Dealers can usually claim around an hour's investigation time but if they fault can't be found in that time, then it is then down to the manufacturer to call the shots and write the cheques. Not all cases are clear cut, for instance...

3 month old Primastar with central locking issues...
Chap going mental / it's under warranty / why should I pay etc etc - transpired he'd spilt a cup of coffee down the dash which had turned the body control module into a sort of muddy looking swimming pool.

8 month old Clio with a leaky n/s/f door under certain condition...
Again, it's fecking new / I want the manager / it's warranty etc etc... strip down revealed the car had been painted along the entire length and the door seals were poorly fitted.

Both times, at least an hour labour on each... who pays for that hour? The manufacturer won't as it's not a warranty issue. The dealer, well why should he lose money for something that isn't their issue (hence some are reluctant to spend time they won't be paid for) and so in these instances, the customer was liable for the investigation and ultimately, the repairs.

So, before going off half cocked, worth noting that the warranty covers manufacturing defects and failures and any extended time required to find said defect will be at the owners cost or will need the time authorised by the manufacturers warranty department.

Get of the dealer's back, somebody has to pay for the work he's doing on behalf of you the customer and the manufacturer. If neither are willing to pay, there's a limit as to what can be done. Appreciate some issues such as this can be very frustrating as a customer, but generally things get sorted much faster if you a) have a good dealer and b) don't burst their balls when their hands could be tied by manufacturer. Hell, at times the dealer may actually want you to call the manufacturer, kick up a fuss just so they can get your car sorted and get it out the door!

Edited by Davie on Saturday 24th May 14:43