Car Hacking a reality!
Discussion
Came across this video showing that is it possible to hack a car from across the country. the video show that it is possible to control any manner of the cars functions on something called the CAN bus network.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs#t=686
This is pretty scary stuff. My question is should we be scared? should we move back to older cars that don't utilize these modern systems? Do you think, for instance, presidential vehicles etc have protection against these attacks ?
A quick search reveals "CAN bus equipped vehicles started appearing in model year 2003. By model year 2008, all vehicles sold in the US must use CAN bus."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs#t=686
This is pretty scary stuff. My question is should we be scared? should we move back to older cars that don't utilize these modern systems? Do you think, for instance, presidential vehicles etc have protection against these attacks ?
A quick search reveals "CAN bus equipped vehicles started appearing in model year 2003. By model year 2008, all vehicles sold in the US must use CAN bus."
smckenna92 said:
Came across this video showing that is it possible to hack a car from across the country. the video show that it is possible to control any manner of the cars functions on something called the CAN bus network.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs#t=686
This is pretty scary stuff. My question is should we be scared? should we move back to older cars that don't utilize these modern systems? Do you think, for instance, presidential vehicles etc have protection against these attacks ?
A quick search reveals "CAN bus equipped vehicles started appearing in model year 2003. By model year 2008, all vehicles sold in the US must use CAN bus."
Utter pish!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs#t=686
This is pretty scary stuff. My question is should we be scared? should we move back to older cars that don't utilize these modern systems? Do you think, for instance, presidential vehicles etc have protection against these attacks ?
A quick search reveals "CAN bus equipped vehicles started appearing in model year 2003. By model year 2008, all vehicles sold in the US must use CAN bus."
Go and troll elsewhere.
smckenna92 said:
Came across this video showing that is it possible to hack a car from across the country. the video show that it is possible to control any manner of the cars functions on something called the CAN bus network.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs#t=686
This is pretty scary stuff. My question is should we be scared? should we move back to older cars that don't utilize these modern systems? Do you think, for instance, presidential vehicles etc have protection against these attacks ?
A quick search reveals "CAN bus equipped vehicles started appearing in model year 2003. By model year 2008, all vehicles sold in the US must use CAN bus."
A "CAN BUS" network is a local, hardwired (ie using real wires) network, used to transfer control signals between the various control modules in your car. It has indeed been used for well over 10 years. You can indeed plug into it easy, through the OBD connector, and if you are smart, then you can indeed use it to control or modify the action of devices connected to the CAN BUS. However, because it is a local network, you would have to gain access to the cars interior, and either sit there with a laptop, or plant some sort of hidden module that would then take control of the car. Either of those are difficult to do and in the first case fairly obvious to the user!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBeXgAs#t=686
This is pretty scary stuff. My question is should we be scared? should we move back to older cars that don't utilize these modern systems? Do you think, for instance, presidential vehicles etc have protection against these attacks ?
A quick search reveals "CAN bus equipped vehicles started appearing in model year 2003. By model year 2008, all vehicles sold in the US must use CAN bus."
Also, control modules in cars have a lot of safety error checking, so whilst you can for example make the throttle go wide open, it's actually quite difficult to do. Added to which, the driver could of course just turn the car off, or brake or whatever.
Now, the danger is that more and more cars are becoming internet connected, and here we do potentially have an issue, because rogue software could be remotely downloaded to your car without you knowing. But even then, the basic flaw in all the tinfoil hattery, is the simple case of why would you want to do this? There is no financial gain, and if you wanted to kill someone, there are a thousand easier ways to do it!
The CAN bus can sometimes be connected up to the bluetooth systems of a car, and they are pretty easy to fool with a 0000 or 1234 code.
I am not touting this as some major threat, as people have said the cost are high and there are no real benefits, just that the implication are serious. Most of the work being done by the hacking community in this area is to increase awareness to the manufacturers, of these insecurities in there systems, so they can take heed and develop safer ones.
I am not touting this as some major threat, as people have said the cost are high and there are no real benefits, just that the implication are serious. Most of the work being done by the hacking community in this area is to increase awareness to the manufacturers, of these insecurities in there systems, so they can take heed and develop safer ones.
Max_Torque said:
But even then, the basic flaw in all the tinfoil hattery, is the simple case of why would you want to do this? There is no financial gain, and if you wanted to kill someone, there are a thousand easier ways to do it!
The same reason people create viruses that mess up your computer or hack website to display incorrect/offensive information - because they get a kick out of it.smckenna92 said:
The CAN bus can sometimes be connected up to the bluetooth systems of a car, and they are pretty easy to fool with a 0000 or 1234 code.
I am not touting this as some major threat, as people have said the cost are high and there are no real benefits, just that the implication are serious. Most of the work being done by the hacking community in this area is to increase awareness to the manufacturers, of these insecurities in there systems, so they can take heed and develop safer ones.
"the hacking community" are not interested in rasing awareness. They do it because they have nothing else in their sad little lives to do except fI am not touting this as some major threat, as people have said the cost are high and there are no real benefits, just that the implication are serious. Most of the work being done by the hacking community in this area is to increase awareness to the manufacturers, of these insecurities in there systems, so they can take heed and develop safer ones.
k about with other peoples stuff from behind a keyboard. They do it for kicks and nothing else. 
I've posted this video before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=metkEeZvHTg
Seems convincing to me, I suppose I put more stock in 'professor from respected university who is an expert in the field' than 'anonymous nobody on the internet says it's pish'.
As pointed out in this video, bluetooth is not the only wireless connection on a car - many will have some sort of mobile telephony/internet connection; I know for a fact that my 370Z would download artist, album and song information as it ripped CDs to its internal drive.
1. How close do other cars get to your car on e.g. a motorway?
2. What is the furthest distance across which you've made or received a mobile call?
Seems convincing to me, I suppose I put more stock in 'professor from respected university who is an expert in the field' than 'anonymous nobody on the internet says it's pish'.
As pointed out in this video, bluetooth is not the only wireless connection on a car - many will have some sort of mobile telephony/internet connection; I know for a fact that my 370Z would download artist, album and song information as it ripped CDs to its internal drive.
TheAngryDog said:
Bluetooth, that magical interface that works from miles away, or is that up to 60 metres, I forget which.....
A couple of questions, if you would indulge me:1. How close do other cars get to your car on e.g. a motorway?
2. What is the furthest distance across which you've made or received a mobile call?
Edited by xRIEx on Saturday 31st May 22:34
xRIEx said:
I've posted this video before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=metkEeZvHTg
Seems convincing to me, I suppose I put more stock in 'professor from respected university who is an expert in the field' than 'anonymous nobody on the internet says it's pish'.
As pointed out in this video, bluetooth is not the only wireless connection on a car - many will have some sort of mobile telephony/internet connection; I know for a fact that my 370Z would download artist, album and song information as it ripped CDs to its internal drive.
How is your car connected to the internet?Seems convincing to me, I suppose I put more stock in 'professor from respected university who is an expert in the field' than 'anonymous nobody on the internet says it's pish'.
As pointed out in this video, bluetooth is not the only wireless connection on a car - many will have some sort of mobile telephony/internet connection; I know for a fact that my 370Z would download artist, album and song information as it ripped CDs to its internal drive.
Although only a small minority of cars currently on the road are connected to the internet, quite a large number of newly manufactured cars are, so the minority will become a majority over time.
This is the BMW system: lots of other makers have their own equivalents.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/conn...
This is the BMW system: lots of other makers have their own equivalents.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/conn...
Am I the only person that wonders why manufacturers are putting 'apps' capable systems in cars?
Surely car are for driving, and pissing around with apps whilst doing so should be illegal, the same as using a phone, worse IMO.
I don't even understand why people are allowed to have sat navs mounted in the middle of their screens.
FFS concentrate on the road.
Surely car are for driving, and pissing around with apps whilst doing so should be illegal, the same as using a phone, worse IMO.
I don't even understand why people are allowed to have sat navs mounted in the middle of their screens.
FFS concentrate on the road.
xRIEx said:
A couple of questions, if you would indulge me:
1. How close do other cars get to your car on e.g. a motorway?
2. What is the furthest distance across which you've made or received a mobile call?
Point noted, however, that is UP TO 60 metres, it isn't uniform, my phone struggles at anything more than 12".1. How close do other cars get to your car on e.g. a motorway?
2. What is the furthest distance across which you've made or received a mobile call?
Edited by xRIEx on Saturday 31st May 22:34
Anyone who has 1234 etc as their code deserves everything they get. I'm quite sure The President et al would have these all covered in any eventuality.
Piersman2 said:
Am I the only person that wonders why manufacturers are putting 'apps' capable systems in cars?
Surely car are for driving, and pissing around with apps whilst doing so should be illegal, the same as using a phone, worse IMO.
I don't even understand why people are allowed to have sat navs mounted in the middle of their screens.
FFS concentrate on the road.
This.I want to drive, not check up on. the proximity and intentions of Dave & Stacey. Epic fail. 90s cars are the way forward Surely car are for driving, and pissing around with apps whilst doing so should be illegal, the same as using a phone, worse IMO.
I don't even understand why people are allowed to have sat navs mounted in the middle of their screens.
FFS concentrate on the road.
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