How can we stop so many lorries crashing and breaking down?
Discussion
Given the M1 chaos today, what incentives/penalties could we offer to try to eliminate this kind of stuff? I know HGVs are statistically safer, but the effects when they crash or breakdown (or both in this case) are disproportionate.
ETA - after a discussion further down the thread it appears my wording above may have made it sound as if I imagine the drivers do this for fun/on purpose. For the avoidance of doubt I have every sympathy with the driver who was injured today and I am not anti-HGV in any way - I was trying to ask if we can't find some ways to prevent this from happening so often, for the benefit of everyone.
ETA - after a discussion further down the thread it appears my wording above may have made it sound as if I imagine the drivers do this for fun/on purpose. For the avoidance of doubt I have every sympathy with the driver who was injured today and I am not anti-HGV in any way - I was trying to ask if we can't find some ways to prevent this from happening so often, for the benefit of everyone.
Edited by V8forweekends on Thursday 5th June 15:35
Some kind of emergency access lane to get people off the motorway between junctions might be more to the point (ie a single lane the other side of the crash barrier to get people off the carriageway and around the accident, with gates operated by HATOs).
You can't penalise HGVs for using the motorways - the economy would grind to a halt without them and we don't want them routing back through town centres on A roads, like in the 50s and 60s.
You can't penalise HGVs for using the motorways - the economy would grind to a halt without them and we don't want them routing back through town centres on A roads, like in the 50s and 60s.
Bluebarge said:
Some kind of emergency access lane to get people off the motorway between junctions might be more to the point (ie a single lane the other side of the crash barrier to get people off the carriageway and around the accident, with gates operated by HATOs).
You can't penalise HGVs for using the motorways - the economy would grind to a halt without them and we don't want them routing back through town centres on A roads, like in the 50s and 60s.
You can't penalise HGVs for using the motorways - the economy would grind to a halt without them and we don't want them routing back through town centres on A roads, like in the 50s and 60s.
I didn't mean penalise HGVs for using motorways - but when an "accident" like this occurs, HGVs suffer really badly (arguably the most). If there were penalties (at company/operator level) or maybe a bonus on VED for operators with low breakdown/accident rates it might help, cos it really ruins everyone's day when something like today's happens. I am not anti-HGV at all, the transport industry must be losing millions today.
Garlick said:
They don't want to crash. They don't want to break down. It's just one of those (admittedly annoying) things
Of course I am not suggesting anyone does it on purpose, but it's a massive disruption given our hugely overcrowded roads. Do we really just shrug and say "oh well, we can't do any better?"
Fantuzzi said:
I'm pretty sure hgv companies get a bonus for not breaking down, its called not loosing[sic] a days work, f
king off a customer and then having to repair the truck...
king off a customer and then having to repair the truck...Fair point, well made - my question was how can we (if we can) make it even less likely to have a breakdown or crash, bearing in mind the effect on all the other HGVs in the queue/diversion etc.
jmorgan said:
What happened? Don't suppose we can shoot all the gawkers that slow up the other direction? Assuming one lane shut, sure as eggs is eggs there will be the terminally stupid rubber necking.
HGV crashed into the back of another that had broken down in the early hours. Northbound M1 total closure since while they recover vehcles, get fuel off the road and presumably resurface.A large part of the issue is the damage they do when they hit things such as crash barriers these often need repairs.
I can't say I have ever been held up by a broken down lorry though
One change that may help, as I understand it European lorries have an 'optional' extra mirror that eliminates the blind spot but it is 'optional' I know myself every time a lorry makes a bad move to overtake its generally on foreign plates
I can't say I have ever been held up by a broken down lorry though
One change that may help, as I understand it European lorries have an 'optional' extra mirror that eliminates the blind spot but it is 'optional' I know myself every time a lorry makes a bad move to overtake its generally on foreign plates
I'm sitting here in Chesterfield watching diverted traffic crawling northwards on the A61. Just about every road through the town is snarled up too, just as it is up to a dozen times a year when there's an incident on the M1. It must be a huge cost to local commerce, never mind those who had been travelling on the motorway itself.
But it never is one lane shut is it?
I have seen lots of incidents of the high way wombles closing lanes 1 and 2 or even 1, 2 and 3 for a minor incident for huge distances before the incident.
I appreciate that we have to give the emergency services room to do their job, and a valuable appreciated one it is but H&S seems to have gone the wrong side of sensible when it comes to closing roads off these days.
Agreed that the rubbernecking REALLY doesn't help either!
I have seen lots of incidents of the high way wombles closing lanes 1 and 2 or even 1, 2 and 3 for a minor incident for huge distances before the incident.
I appreciate that we have to give the emergency services room to do their job, and a valuable appreciated one it is but H&S seems to have gone the wrong side of sensible when it comes to closing roads off these days.
Agreed that the rubbernecking REALLY doesn't help either!
V8forweekends said:
jmorgan said:
What happened? Don't suppose we can shoot all the gawkers that slow up the other direction? Assuming one lane shut, sure as eggs is eggs there will be the terminally stupid rubber necking.
HGV crashed into the back of another that had broken down in the early hours. Northbound M1 total closure since while they recover vehcles, get fuel off the road and presumably resurface.There was one such incident on the M6 southbound just past Coventry one morning and the cab was the width of a fag packet.
V8forweekends said:
HGV crashed into the back of another that had broken down in the early hours. Northbound M1 total closure since while they recover vehcles, get fuel off the road and presumably resurface.
Could just as easily have been caused by a car, or a motorhome of a pick-up towing a trailer. I once sat on the M48 for 2 hours looking at a body lying under a tarpaulin that had been a bloke who ran across the carriageway and got hit by a van. Nobody needs an incentive not to get run over, hit someone, crash or break down. What is needed at most is some way of getting around the obstruction. But that would not be cheap to install across the network.
If you ever had cause to use the rail network to get to work, you would know it suffers the same problems from breakdowns, accidents etc. Sh*t happens, you can't prevent all of it.
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