Clocking modern cars - Is it common?
Discussion
This is not a thread about how to do it. I'm vehemently against it but is it common and what are the tell-tale signs?
Talking to my girlfriend this weekend, she said it happens all the time in Spain and she won't buy private unless she knows the original owner and the history of the car. My particular car will most likely have about 125,000 miles when I come to sell it in a couple of years and she said most third party dealers will knock it down to below 100k! There are even stories of main dealers doing this which is shocking.
However I looked at how my particular car would be clocked and there are three anti-tamper safeguards to prevent it and a very obvious indicator on the dash to show it's been done. This would include the ECU, another unit that links to the ECU and the dash unit itself. All contain a mileage counter that must sync up otherwise a clocking "dot" appears. (BMW E87).
Is it really that common?
Talking to my girlfriend this weekend, she said it happens all the time in Spain and she won't buy private unless she knows the original owner and the history of the car. My particular car will most likely have about 125,000 miles when I come to sell it in a couple of years and she said most third party dealers will knock it down to below 100k! There are even stories of main dealers doing this which is shocking.
However I looked at how my particular car would be clocked and there are three anti-tamper safeguards to prevent it and a very obvious indicator on the dash to show it's been done. This would include the ECU, another unit that links to the ECU and the dash unit itself. All contain a mileage counter that must sync up otherwise a clocking "dot" appears. (BMW E87).
Is it really that common?
mrben1234 said:
Surely it's more difficult in the UK because the mileage gets recorded during an MOT so you can see the history with a HPI check. Although you could do it to a sub 3 year old car or before it goes in for an MOT.
You get offered it before you annual service and MOT.Keeps it down for the business types.
mrben1234 said:
Surely it's more difficult in the UK because the mileage gets recorded during an MOT so you can see the history with a HPI check. Although you could do it to a sub 3 year old car or before it goes in for an MOT.
I've heard that a correction can take place once a year ahead of service/MOT time.No further info though, but I have seen plenty of 60k miles 5yo German cars with very baggy front seats...
mrben1234 said:
Surely it's more difficult in the UK because the mileage gets recorded during an MOT so you can see the history with a HPI check. Although you could do it to a sub 3 year old car or before it goes in for an MOT.
You have the same in Spain. You're ITV (MOT), records the mileage to help prevent clocking, but corruption runs wide and it can be "updated" in the system as a correction so I'm told.I've also heard the mileage is encrypted on the key fob too so that's a fourth counter-measure against the practice.
It makes me wonder if it was common in the past but it seems pretty hard to do it nowadays with modern cars....
- ECU
- Dash control unit
- Dash unit
- Key fob
- Vehicle inspection certificate (MOT)
- Service Log book
That's a lot to beat to clock a car properly! It does make me question how common the practice is.
It's very easy on VAG. Not that I have ever or would ever do it myself but it's 5 minutes work with VAGTacho on cars up to 2008, afterwards it's still pretty easy just need a later version of the tool which is harder to get.
If you do 25k a year but clock it back to show you've only done let's say 8k a year between each MOT... it's not hard to falsify at all.
If you do 25k a year but clock it back to show you've only done let's say 8k a year between each MOT... it's not hard to falsify at all.
Easy to do, lots of mileage correction service companies out there but also quite easy to spot with a lot of cars logging operating hours and service information on keys etc. Can go and get the whole service history from most dealer computers now too. Low mileage car that has gone through a set of disks and pads every year or has a longer running time showing a high average speed (over 40mph) but claims to have only been used to trundle to the shops and back obviously isn’t quite right. Usually certain types of cars that people adjust though, like big executive cruisers that have done a lot of motorway work or diesel rep machines or something very mileage sensitive like Porsche, Ferrari etc. Endemic in the supercar world I’m told.
My contacts in the motor trade all recognise how widespread this still is nowadays. Although greater technical ability and multiple resetting of recorders is now required technocrats with the relevant software can and do achieve this very easily on modern cars. The best protection must be to scrutinise the actual condition and wear on the car offered. Full service history supported by Mot's and receipts does not mean that the car is actually the low mileage vehicle it is purported to be.
I do think that much of this as others have said is owners avoiding end of lease charge by regularly cutting the mileage down. The only defence is for the buyer to judge the car on its condition and presentation. Other than that I cannot see any effective way of avoiding what has become a real problem. Perhaps being very doubtful of any supposed really low lineage cars which seem to be exceptionally tired in relation to the purported mileage and have seat wear etc which just does not look right, are best avoided to try and ensure that the car that you do buy is a genuinely low mileage car. Caveat emptor being the buyers best defence once again!
I do think that much of this as others have said is owners avoiding end of lease charge by regularly cutting the mileage down. The only defence is for the buyer to judge the car on its condition and presentation. Other than that I cannot see any effective way of avoiding what has become a real problem. Perhaps being very doubtful of any supposed really low lineage cars which seem to be exceptionally tired in relation to the purported mileage and have seat wear etc which just does not look right, are best avoided to try and ensure that the car that you do buy is a genuinely low mileage car. Caveat emptor being the buyers best defence once again!
I know a few people that have done it. One had a 10k per year lease on a BMW, he got it clocked every year, after 3 years the car had done 90k but showed 30k. I've got another friend that's doing his Mini diesel. He's asked his friendly MOT guy to put the mileage he wanted on his MOT so when he gets it wound back it will all tally up how he want's it to. Think he's taking 40k off it.
I'd say if it looks too good to be true it usually is. The biggest giveaway on my mates Mini will be that he's trying to make out he did 5k in his first year of ownership. Who buys a diesel for 5k miles a year?
I'd say if it looks too good to be true it usually is. The biggest giveaway on my mates Mini will be that he's trying to make out he did 5k in his first year of ownership. Who buys a diesel for 5k miles a year?
Escy said:
I know a few people that have done it. One had a 10k per year lease on a BMW, he got it clocked every year, after 3 years the car had done 90k but showed 30k. I've got another friend that's doing his Mini diesel. He's asked his friendly MOT guy to put the mileage he wanted on his MOT so when he gets it wound back it will all tally up how he want's it to. Think he's taking 40k off it.
I'd say if it looks too good to be true it usually is. The biggest giveaway on my mates Mini will be that he's trying to make out he did 5k in his first year of ownership. Who buys a diesel for 5k miles a year?
Indeed. Low mileage diesels and low mileage gas converted cars are an anathema in modern cars. Yet there are such cars about regularly. I am always suspicious of such cars and avoid them personally. A diesel Mini with a 5k mileage in a year? I do not think so. I'd say if it looks too good to be true it usually is. The biggest giveaway on my mates Mini will be that he's trying to make out he did 5k in his first year of ownership. Who buys a diesel for 5k miles a year?
Qwert1e said:
Clocking cars is generally pretty pointless these days,
Have you read the contributions to the thread?- Main dealers share a central database of service history, including mileage.
- MOT database contains all the mileages and the last 3 or 4 get printed on your MOT certificate.
Qwert1e said:
Clocking cars is generally pretty pointless these days,
So if I buy a car new and knock 10k off it every year, ask for it to be serviced 'early' because I look after my cars how will they know? Likewise clock it before every mot. - Main dealers share a central database of service history, including mileage.
- MOT database contains all the mileages and the last 3 or 4 get printed on your MOT certificate.
Yes it is and you need to check for things like frey'ed seat belts, worn carpet under the drivers feet, worn steering wheel ( shiny) worn gear knob, dirt on head cloth above drivers head, chips to screen and front panel if the condition does not match the mileage then sure someone's been at it.
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