Which spec of super light track car...

[gsuk1]

Like a lot of petrol heads I like the idea of super light road legal track day car (Atom or Caterham most likely).

I've been saving and now find myself in a position where work is very close to home. I hence am not willing to spend much on the very day runner, as I'm only in it for about 15mins/day. so this has feed up some cash, and now I'm starting to look more closely at exactly what to go for...

Radical - To serious rather than fun and to track focused, not usable on the road (even the street legal version).
BAC Mono - I want 2 seats.
KTM XBow - To heavy, to expensive and stupid starting procedure.

So my favourites (having not driven any yet) are the Caterhams and the Atoms. So then the next question is exactly which spec to go for.
I've been on quite a few trackdays and basically I want to faster than all the heavyweights, the 911 GT3's, ferrari scuderia/speciale tyre cars, MP4-12C's etc. They're the cars I'm aiming for.

So just how do the top spec caterhams and atoms compare to the likes of the 12C and GT3's on track?

The new Atom 3.5R looks interesting, but its over budget and I think its only avaliable with flappy paddles (I like a manual).

Does anyone have any experience here....

[ewenm]

On a tight twisty circuit even the modestly powered Caterhams can show a clean pair of heels to more established "Supercars". A track where top speed is relevant will have the Caterham struggling as aero is not its forte - for example, at Rockingham and Silverstone GP.

[dave2007bc]

If you want to be able to push/pull away on a straight from a gt3/mp12 then you will need to be aiming for at least 420bhp per ton so you need to be looking at forced induction kits.

I've obviously no comprehension of your driving ability, but pedalling a 170bhp kitcar is interesting(what mine is) ; I can't imagine what a 250bhp+ kit is like.

I'd recommend starting with a fairly stock caterham and look to upgrade once you're on the limit of the cars capabilities

Edited by dave2007bc on Thursday 26th June 13:26

[The Beaver King]

I saw this in the classifieds yesterday:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...


Very Atom-like...

[gsuk1]

ewenm said:

On a tight twisty circuit even the modestly powered Caterhams can show a clean pair of heels to more established "Supercars". A track where top speed is relevant will have the Caterham struggling as aero is not its forte - for example, at Rockingham and Silverstone GP.

Yeah thats the thing I live near Silverstone, so thats the local track. Which as you say kinda favours the supercars.

At the moment I'm looking at the Caterham R400, R500, R620. or the Atom 3.5 Supercharged.

[gsuk1]

dave2007bc said:

If you want to be able to push/pull away on a straight from a gt3/mp12 then you will need to be aiming for at least 420bhp per ton so you need to be looking at forced induction kits.

I've obviously no comprehension of your driving ability, but pedalling a 170bhp kitcar is interesting(what mine is) ; I can't imagine what a 250bhp+ kit is like.

I'd recommend starting with a fairly stock caterham and look to upgrade once you're on the limit of the cars capabilities

Edited by dave2007bc on Thursday 26th June 13:26

420bhp per ton is good figure to work around. I'll have another look at the various models performance figures.

I'm not a racing driver or anything like that. But I'm trained and experienced on proving grounds as part of my job, and I've done quite a few trackdays and rally days etc. So I consider myself to be fairly handy.

I'm not to keen on starting slow and building up. I have a garage but no workshop and I'm a crap mechanic lol.

[dave2007bc]

If you're handy at driving but not fixing then you definitely need something factory built as opposed to something cobbled together in a garage. I'd probably be looking more towards an Ariel than a caterham due to the improved aero.

If Silverstone is your local then stay away from Bike-engined cars (Regardless of power) as you'll be hitting the limiter on most of the straights (around 110-115 on a BEC).

My kit is around 300bhp a ton and I can match a mates c63 AMG metre by metre up to 120mph and after that it's like I'm going backwards as his extra power and his better aerodynamics really plays a part.

[gsuk1]

dave2007bc said:

If you're handy at driving but not fixing then you definitely need something factory built as opposed to something cobbled together in a garage. I'd probably be looking more towards an Ariel than a caterham due to the improved aero.

If Silverstone is your local then stay away from Bike-engined cars (Regardless of power) as you'll be hitting the limiter on most of the straights (around 110-115 on a BEC).

My kit is around 300bhp a ton and I can match a mates c63 AMG metre by metre up to 120mph and after that it's like I'm going backwards as his extra power and his better aerodynamics really plays a part.

Good Tip! Yeah I'm only really looking at factory built. Otherwise I'd just be buying myself some problems!

Is the Atom much more aerodynamic than the Caterham though? I wouldn't have thought there was much in it.

Yeah the high speed is exactly the problem with these sorts of cars. I'm not sure what the top speed of the Atom 3.5 and top end Caterhams is actually. I'm guessing around 150 ish.

[dave2007bc]

The R500 (assuming road-going) has a drag co-efficient of around 0.7, the ariel atom S/C has 0.4 so a fairly big difference.

An R500 will top out at around 150mph and the atom is around 155 so not much in it.

[gsuk1]

dave2007bc said:

The R500 (assuming road-going) has a drag co-efficient of around 0.7, the ariel atom S/C has 0.4 so a fairly big difference.

An R500 will top out at around 150mph and the atom is around 155 so not much in it.

That's interesting. Very big difference in the drag but roughly the same top speed... Presumably the Atom is geared shorter, so it uses the lower drag to get to the top end faster.

[soad]

The Beaver King said:

I saw this in the classifieds yesterday:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...


Very Atom-like...

Good find!

[Mr SFJ]

What about an original Atom?
300hp supercharged VTEC engine?

[jimmyVX]

Personally, id put some money into getting some tuition and getting the most out of the car. Having been at Silverstone as a passenger in an R300 Caterham championship car for the day, I can tell you that very little came passed all day and that was with me in as a passenger.

Sure you arent going to compete in a straight line drag, but over a flying lap, with the right skills, you would be a match for most things on your average track day.

[Tickle]

Mr SFJ said:

What about an original Atom?
300hp supercharged VTEC engine?

From the list of cars mentioned (R300,400,500 and 620) the original Atom wouldn't stand much of a chance. I am a fan of the K-series but it's no match for the Honda versions S/C or non S/C.

I have driven a Atom 300, I had trouble believing that something so rapid was road legal!

[GravelBen]

Its a trackday, not a race - who cares if you're going faster or slower than someone in a completely different car if you're both having fun?

[tuffer]

So, you don't understand why someone would buy a 911 Turbo rather than a GT3 or C2S etc yet you would favour a Caterham R500 or R620 over a standard model........

[aww999]

One thing to bear in mind - you buy one of these cars because of the corners, so there is a natural inclination to use sticky track tyres. When I put them on my old 180bhp Fury, it was better than ever in the corvers, but had so much grip it was on the verge of feeling underpowered.

From everything the OP has said, go for the most power-to-weight you can afford, then spend many happy hours trying to learn to use it most effectively

[Mr SFJ]

Tickle said:

From the list of cars mentioned (R300,400,500 and 620) the original Atom wouldn't stand much of a chance. I am a fan of the K-series but it's no match for the Honda versions S/C or non S/C.

I have driven a Atom 300, I had trouble believing that something so rapid was road legal!

I thought the original atom had a 300hp Supercharged Civic Type R engine in it?
Could be wrong

[tuffer]

Mr SFJ said:

Tickle said:

From the list of cars mentioned (R300,400,500 and 620) the original Atom wouldn't stand much of a chance. I am a fan of the K-series but it's no match for the Honda versions S/C or non S/C.

I have driven a Atom 300, I had trouble believing that something so rapid was road legal!

I thought the original atom had a 300hp Supercharged Civic Type R engine in it?
Could be wrong

Original versions had the K series in various levels of tune. Simon Saunders took my wife out in one of the early base spec cars and that was plenty quick.

[Mr SFJ]

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

That looks a rather tasty version! That was the one I was refering too, I though they would be very nice, and with the Quaife LSD it sounds like a very tempting option.