RE: Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet
RE: Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet
Thursday 21st August 2014

Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet

Danny swaps the Clio for a 208 GTI to see if Peugeot's doing any better at hot hatch revivalism



If the ability to recall the number plate of a car is a sure sign of its eminence, then F311 FJO - my poor abused Peugeot 205 XS (1989-2000 RIP) - has reserved a permanent parking space in my memory. That it was only my second car, run on a shoestring bike mechanic's wage, no doubt helped ensure its status. But it's the character and ability to put a smile on my face that still sticks in the mind today.

Neither exactly has oil painting qualities
Neither exactly has oil painting qualities
Even now I can vividly remember the grey cloth seats with their purposeful bolsters, the three-spoke GTI steering wheel and the deep front splitter housing a pair of all-important fog lights (permanently on, naturally). Best of all though, was that moment that both chokes opened up in second gear and all 85 horses were unleashed - it was, until the CRX at least, the late 80s equivalent of VTEC kicking in. Despite surviving my repeated attempts to destroy it, F311 FJO - according to DVLA records - met an unknown fate a year later. Only its soul lives on.

Those brief few years endeared me to fast Pugs, and particularly anything with a Rallye sticker on the side. Even now I wish I'd replaced it with a 106 Rallye, instead of a green KA that made it look like I was borrowing my mum's car. But then Peugeot spawned the 206, and it all went sour. I'm sure I'm not alone in being comprehensively turned off the brand.

Word is though that Peugeot has rediscovered its mojo and cars like the RCZ and 208 GTI are reigniting the flame in nostalgic old fools like me. Then a chance came to find out for myself, when Dan borrowed the Clio for a week, and threw me the keys to a 208 GTI.

Are both trading too hard on past glories?
Are both trading too hard on past glories?
While the Clio bears no visual relation to its predecessors, there are obvious references to the 205 in the styling of the 208: the broad C-pillars decorated with that GTI emblem and the shape of the quarter glass in particular. It's not a contrived pastiche, but the inspiration is clear. At which point the marketing department seems to have taken over and chucked a container-load of Chinese chrome plastic at it.

Inside it's a similar story. The seats bulge in every direction, as though they've been on an intense course of steroids, the gear knob resembles a sex toy and, running with the theme, there's a strip of LED lights running either side of the glass roof that makes me think the interior designers did all their research in a branch of Spearmint Rhino.

Further distorting the proportions of the swollen upholstery is a steering wheel so miniscule I actually laughed when I saw it. Yet, despite the lack of real estate, Peugeot has found room to add ergonomic thumb grips, a flat bottom and red stitching at 12'o'clock in addition to the usual plethora of ancillary controls. You need to run it really low, too, otherwise it impedes your view of the high-mounted instrument panel.

Visual nods to 205 GTI sadly as far as it goes
Visual nods to 205 GTI sadly as far as it goes
Start the 208 with a nice, traditional turn of the key and there's a rather apologetic burble. It's certainly eager, but the throttle mapping delivers most of the oomph in the early part of the travel. So it's a case of too much, too soon, making for slightly jerky gear changes and little extra reward for exploring the widest throttle openings.

Power levels between the Clio and 208 may be identical, but the Pug is 45kg lighter and boasts a decent slug of extra torque from its 1.6-litre turbocharged engine. Even so, it doesn't feel any faster. In fact, it seems hamstrung by greater turbo lag. In the Clio - providing you're in Race mode - you can always grab a paddle and get a (fairly) prompt downshift if it bogs down, but in the 208 it seems hardly worth the legwork.

There's an appealing suppleness to the ride of the 208. I'd even go as far as saying it's more comfortable than the Clio for day-to-day urban commuting. Get it into the sticks, however, and, just like the road surface, cracks begin to appear. If the Clio is a model of composure on lumpen B-roads and mid-corner bumps, then the 208 is rather more unruly when making progress; jolting and jostling and exhibiting a slightly panicked flutter to the dampers as you plumb the depths of their stroke. It's as if the chassis engineers were on the home straight when the styling department rang and said "sorry, time's up; we've got some chrome bits to fit."

On paper promise not entirely delivered on
On paper promise not entirely delivered on
If the steering wheel looks like it's been confiscated from a teenager's XBOX, then it actually feels like it's still plugged in. I say feel, but that might imply that it provides some actual tactile feedback. It doesn't. On the other hand, it's also arcade direct and wired up to a chassis that feels pointy and adjustable. Not to the extent of its forebears but keen and alert are words that spring to mind when recalling the handling.

All that probably sounds like I hated the 208 actually I think it was more a case that we just didn't gel. Really I should have loved it. It's three-door, manual, overtly sporty - exactly as a hot hatch should be. But it's here, though, the past kept getting in the way. Not in the shape of the 205 - I'm not that curmugeonly - but the last generation Clio 200 Cup. A car that, in my eyes, perfected the recipe for three-door, manual, shopping trolley racers. I'd have one over either the 208 GTI or our Clio 200 EDC in a heartbeat.

That I'd still choose the current Clio Renaultsport over the Peugeot is perhaps the ultimate blow. Both, it seems, are works in progress, the Peugeot more so. But with the recent announcement of the exciting 208 GTI 30th anniversary edition, with its Torsen LSD, revised suspension and merciful lack of mirrored plastic, the tables may be about to turn.


FACT SHEET
Car:
 Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo EDC LUX
Run by: Danny Milner
On fleet since: April 2014
Mileage: 6,968
List price new: £21,535 (Basic list of £19,995 plus £650 for Cup Chassis including revised spring/damper rates, gloss black 18-inch wheels, red brake calipers and Dunlop Sport Maxx TT tyres, £595 for Flame Red i.d. metallic paint, £295 for Renaultsport Monitor)
Last month at a glance: Danny swaps Clio for a Peugeot 208 GTI for a week, adjusts rose tints accordingly

Previous updates:
Clio arrives on the PH Fleet; faces an uphill struggle for popular opinion
PH 'accidentally' ends up in an impromptu Clio Cup race at Spa
Danny heads to Scotland in search of the Clio's hidden depths
Found - the Clio's wild side

 

Author
Discussion

Dave G fsi

Original Poster:

988 posts

160 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
All this talk of the steering wheel and no pics? frown

GTEYE

2,484 posts

240 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
The thing they both seem to share is an aversion to buyers, all of whom continue to flock to the Fiesta ST.

Can't say I blame them.

thatguy11

658 posts

153 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
I had a 208 as a hire car a few months ago and couldn't believe how dinky the steering wheel was when I first saw it, it's like a go kart wheel. Can't really say I liked it.

It's bizarre to look over the wheel rather than through it at the instruments, and gave the impression you were sitting higher up than you actually were.

HereBeMonsters

14,180 posts

212 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
I have to say the interior is what put me off as well. Laughably crap.

sad61t

1,100 posts

240 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Image of said steering wheel*:



Thick [check]
Thumb rests [check]
Flat 'sport' bottom [check]
Contrasting stitching [check]
Logo to remind driver they've bought a GTI [check]
Instruments visible [fail]
Connection to front wheels [TODO]



Edited by sad61t on Thursday 21st August 14:54

kambites

71,478 posts

251 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Neither appeals in the slightest. Shame because whilst recent Peugeot hot hatches have hardly been memorable, Renault have produced some rather fine ones.

JG5

2,449 posts

216 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
It's a 208 article, with a fact sheet and title about a Clio?

lightthefuse

426 posts

202 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
I'd bought my non-GTI 208 before the Clio, R.S 200 or GTI were available. Cannot comment on the lag since I haven't driven a THP engine, can also confirm your sentiments about the steering feel (or lack of), but on the other hand that pointiness gives you the confidence you're going to put the car where you intend to. I had a really hard time provoking understeer on the test drive before I bought mine and more often than not how many tenths you're driving at kicks in way before any lairiness. That said I got my first taste of lift-off oversteer in mine with a very slight kick of the tail, but that was on a road wetter than I bargained for and the ESP did kick in and save it.

I think it's a shame you didn't gel, by the same token the Clio just didn't agree with me either.

ETA - give it up on the steering wheel already. It is Marmite. Either raise your seat, lower the wheel or a combination of the two!

Amirhussain

11,652 posts

193 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Fiesta ST for me, I find it just too much appealing than either of these two.

MikeGoodwin

3,901 posts

147 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
What the fk has happened to the world of Motorsport and cars?

How long will this continue?

Pugeot can fk off.

At least we have Morgan, Caterham and Lotus. Ferrari seem to be the only ones who are consistently producing good cars.

kambites

71,478 posts

251 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Really? I have little personal experience but from what I've read, Ferrari were amongst the first to succumb to the "faster automatically equals better" mentality for their road cars.

WCZ

11,516 posts

224 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
both equally st

bigaoi

191 posts

187 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
I miss my 205XS too. Skinny tyres on a GT86/BRZ ? Don't think so, the XS had 165/70 R13's. Complete laugh, sharp and instantaneous, all at sensible speeds.

CamMoreRon

1,237 posts

155 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
All together now..

Meh.

dukebox9reg

1,721 posts

178 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
All I've heard from owners above the age of 21 who have bought the ST have complained about it riding far too hard for the day to day commute. One is chopping it in after only a few months for a Focus ST due to its ride.

Maybe these are for the more mature....rather than the people who feel the need to say the delightful line, 'it's ste' again most the time without having actually driven it.

I admit the current Clio RS doesn't look a patch on the old RS. I saw a couple in convoy the other day. New liquid yellow RS followed by a previous Gen RS200 in blue and even in yellow it wasn't a patch on the previous. This RS really needed the 'wing' treatment.

Still the Clio looks a lot more modern than the Fiesta. The ST may be the best for a quick blast, I don't deny that but the interior and exterior are very long in the tooth now and the wheels look like they are out of the Wolfrace bin from the 1990's.

The Pug for me isn't bad and if you're actually above average height seeing the dials is no issue at all regardless of the pics which show the wheel in its highest position and from the view point of a 10 yr old.

I'm really interested to see if Renault do the same level of change that they did from the 197 to 200 now. Then it would be a cracking car.

5potTurbo

13,681 posts

198 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
dukebox9reg said:
All I've heard from owners above the age of 21 who have bought the ST have complained about it riding far too hard for the day to day commute. One is chopping it in after only a few months for a Focus ST due to its ride.

Maybe these are for the more mature....rather than the people who feel the need to say the delightful line, 'it's ste' again most the time without having actually driven it.

I admit the current Clio RS doesn't look a patch on the old RS. I saw a couple in convoy the other day. New liquid yellow RS followed by a previous Gen RS200 in blue and even in yellow it wasn't a patch on the previous. This RS really needed the 'wing' treatment.

Still the Clio looks a lot more modern than the Fiesta. The ST may be the best for a quick blast, I don't deny that but the interior and exterior are very long in the tooth now and the wheels look like they are out of the Wolfrace bin from the 1990's.

The Pug for me isn't bad and if you're actually above average height seeing the dials is no issue at all regardless of the pics which show the wheel in its highest position and from the view point of a 10 yr old.

I'm really interested to see if Renault do the same level of change that they did from the 197 to 200 now. Then it would be a cracking car.
I'm 44 and I LOVE my 2014 Fiesta ST. cloud9
I drove the Pug 208 GTi, the Clio RS and the Focus ST beforehand and STILL bought the Fiesta. The Focus wasn't worth the extra €10K or so and the other 2 just didn't put a smile on my face.
The only thing I don't like about the Fiesta is the sound symposer, but an alloy plug's available from SICO for £12; sorted. thumbup

framerateuk

2,946 posts

214 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
I'd be very surprised if Renault didn't "fix" the Clio R.S.

Seemingly they need to speed up the gearchanges and give it a small power hike to make up for the extra weight. A few options such as Recaro seats would go a long way too. I can't see them fitting an LSD to a car in this segment though unless it's released as a Gordini edition or something.

chrisemersons

143 posts

173 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
MikeGoodwin said:
At least we have Morgan, Caterham and Lotus. Ferrari seem to be the only ones who are consistently producing good cars.
What a strange comment !!!

MikeDo

81 posts

148 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
Horses for courses really.

All three motors (208gti, Clio RS and Fiesta st) have their strengths and weaknesses. And yes, I tried all three (+several other cars) before deciding to chop my latest gen Swift sport in for the Clio RS edc. The Fiesta is the best point and shoot car by a country mile, but I could not personally get on with the ride on a day-to-day basis (doesn't mean someone else might not). The Pug I just did not like at all, mainly styling both inside and out (again this does not mean someone else might not love it). In the end I decided on the Clio because it fitted what I want at the moment. Decent level of suspension compliance on the rural SW Scottish roads round here (great drivers roads, but not the best tarmac about to say the least!), quite like the styling (yes I know others don't) and seems to handle pretty well, with a fair bit of punch from the engine. Perfect??? of course not. If Renault stick with the auto box (the thing that seems to cause most consternation), then it really wants to be a 7-speed, with the gear ratios spread out better (certainly some strange choices in the the current box), faster changes (though the current box is frankly no where near as bad as some people paint it) and yes... please fix the flappy paddles to the steering wheel. Which by the way are brushed aluminium and not plastic as so many reviews state (from a previous gen GTR I believe). Makes me wonder at times if they actual drive the cars they review.

To be totally honest the Clio was at the bottom of my list because of the bad press it had received in some places. Though most reviews seem to give it 4 starts... so not too bad in my opinion... ignoring Chris Evans review of it, as I'm not a great fan of the bloke. In fact I ended up going for a 2nd test drive, just to make sure that I was not just getting carried away (new toy syndrome). So am I happy that I've ordered one??? I think the answer her is yes.

Only my own personal observations here, not looking for a flame war with anyone.

bigaoi

191 posts

187 months

Friday 22nd August 2014
quotequote all
Sad to hear some negative opinions on the 208. I too wish that there was less faux- ... chrome / red fading into black etc. Having said that, this is a minor sin compared to the 80's Amstrad stereo styling of the interior of any fast Ford these days. The exterior is OK too. That said, a great driving experience soon makes this all irrelevant, so I hope Pug convince more people and sort out the GTi further.

Are there any informative articles that mention the development team on the 205 ? Those people deserve a beer / glass of wine or two. Interesting how the company's priorities changed.