Making the switch old cars to new cars
Discussion
As we have a thread new to old thought it good to have the opposite view.
Pros
Low VED
Good/ much better MPG
Shorter stopping distances
More safety internal occupants and pedestrians
Full Warranty
Generally 5 year service packs so known costs
No MOTs for 3 years
Better foam in the seats/ less wear
More technology as in great Nav/lights air cooled seats heated steering wheels bumper cameras so as you nose out of blind junctions you can see both ways in the TV screen on dash.
Modern looks
Some are part electric part fossil fuel allowing smog and noise free running in towns cities
Should be much more reliable
Pretty much fixed cost motoring.
Excellent climate control and screen demist and front screen ice removal
Superb lights
Cons
Potentially high depreciation costs (though this is known as its within fixed price motoring)
Bland
Grass is greener looking at older cars
Total fixed cost is high
You get into the cycle of keep changing the car so ongoing high cost
Pros
Low VED
Good/ much better MPG
Shorter stopping distances
More safety internal occupants and pedestrians
Full Warranty
Generally 5 year service packs so known costs
No MOTs for 3 years
Better foam in the seats/ less wear
More technology as in great Nav/lights air cooled seats heated steering wheels bumper cameras so as you nose out of blind junctions you can see both ways in the TV screen on dash.
Modern looks
Some are part electric part fossil fuel allowing smog and noise free running in towns cities
Should be much more reliable
Pretty much fixed cost motoring.
Excellent climate control and screen demist and front screen ice removal
Superb lights
Cons
Potentially high depreciation costs (though this is known as its within fixed price motoring)
Bland
Grass is greener looking at older cars
Total fixed cost is high
You get into the cycle of keep changing the car so ongoing high cost
We changed from older cars to new ones (by we i mean swmbo). she had a new-ish suzuki swift which we found be to a cut n shut and was a complete death trap, i then bought her my dads ka and it was very good to her but she wanted something more comfortable/quiet and a nicer place to be.
then came a brand new fiat 500 lounge spec with extra's (wheels, leather, tints, rubstrips, paintguard) this was bought because i got a £2500 discount due to my job at the time. she had this 2 years with no issues as expected from new car.
she now has a juke as fiat 500 was to small and slow (her words) juke is an n-tec spec diesel was bought due to £3000 discount and a great px price on fiat. (we added 1k and pay the same monthly) juke is lovely to drive, very comfortable and i like the way diesels drive so i think its quite nice to drive.
now me, i probably wont ever buy a brand new car but since people i know getting new motors it does make me want something where everything works and no potential bork factor.
then came a brand new fiat 500 lounge spec with extra's (wheels, leather, tints, rubstrips, paintguard) this was bought because i got a £2500 discount due to my job at the time. she had this 2 years with no issues as expected from new car.
she now has a juke as fiat 500 was to small and slow (her words) juke is an n-tec spec diesel was bought due to £3000 discount and a great px price on fiat. (we added 1k and pay the same monthly) juke is lovely to drive, very comfortable and i like the way diesels drive so i think its quite nice to drive.
now me, i probably wont ever buy a brand new car but since people i know getting new motors it does make me want something where everything works and no potential bork factor.
CONS:
Newer cars not built to as high a standard?
I'm pretty sure reading on here that a lot of mid-late 90s jap and german cars last a lot longer than some of the more modern stuff, talking about cost to fix anyway. I know older cars have things that need sorting but genuinely it seems to be age related (bushes etc) or if it's an alternator for example it's cheaper to fix than a modern car is = plus potential for diy vs new cars?
Newer cars not built to as high a standard?
I'm pretty sure reading on here that a lot of mid-late 90s jap and german cars last a lot longer than some of the more modern stuff, talking about cost to fix anyway. I know older cars have things that need sorting but genuinely it seems to be age related (bushes etc) or if it's an alternator for example it's cheaper to fix than a modern car is = plus potential for diy vs new cars?
Crafty_ said:
Over complicated, unneeded technology
The above tech doesn't work properly
Some things are already dealer fix only, £££££
Specialist tools needed to do some maintenance (brake pad change, battery change)
Spiraling costs for new vehicles
But you will at some point have to run the new cars today be it x years down the line - its not really possible to run a 30-40 year old car doing 20k miles a year. What then? Or will it be a case of bypass the 2000-2020 era cars and jump straight into the 3 series size Tesla due out in a couple of years then its dead simple and cheap motoring. The above tech doesn't work properly
Some things are already dealer fix only, £££££
Specialist tools needed to do some maintenance (brake pad change, battery change)
Spiraling costs for new vehicles
If you're not really a car person it makes a huge amount of sense (as long as you don't need a big car).
My sister in law was finally persuaded that a new car on finance is the way to go after years of running 5-10 year old superminis. Running an old car, when the limit of your mechanical knowledge is filling it with petrol can be a minefield, and in a good year her garage bills were £500 (a service, an MoT, a tyre or two and whatever bit of suspension or emissions equipment London's speed bumps had destroyed that year), in a bad year it was over £1k. During this time the car is still depreciating, maybe only by a few hundred pounds a year, but enough to put the running costs including VED but excluding insurance into the region of £1-2k per year.
If you buy the right new car you can get all kinds of incentives thrown in, especially subsidised or 0% finance which make it cheaper to buy than a nearly new version, and you start with a full warranty (5 years in the case of the i10 chosen in the above scenario, 3 with my sister's Suzuki Alto), a full set of new tyres, and no need for a service for 12 months (along with zero VED).
Finance is a few hundred quid down (which you'll get back in equity at the end of the deal) and £100-140 per month (£1,200-£1,680 per year) with the only extra costs likely to be between £100-200 a year for servicing.
Sure, bangernomics is cheaper, and you might get lucky and only spend £150 a year on maintenance, but if you need the car to get to work, and don't have access to a spare or alternative transport then I wouldn't be risking it. You also have the added bonus of all the electrical items and the a/c working, a car which doesn't smell of the previous owner's dog and your choice of colour.
Not a petrolhead's explanation for sure, but a logical and balanced argument for someone who usually runs mid-age used cars to get into a new one as a way to drive something nicer, and potentially save some money as well.
With the new emissions stuff in London on the way (which will hit older petrol cars too) I can see even more people following this route.
My sister in law was finally persuaded that a new car on finance is the way to go after years of running 5-10 year old superminis. Running an old car, when the limit of your mechanical knowledge is filling it with petrol can be a minefield, and in a good year her garage bills were £500 (a service, an MoT, a tyre or two and whatever bit of suspension or emissions equipment London's speed bumps had destroyed that year), in a bad year it was over £1k. During this time the car is still depreciating, maybe only by a few hundred pounds a year, but enough to put the running costs including VED but excluding insurance into the region of £1-2k per year.
If you buy the right new car you can get all kinds of incentives thrown in, especially subsidised or 0% finance which make it cheaper to buy than a nearly new version, and you start with a full warranty (5 years in the case of the i10 chosen in the above scenario, 3 with my sister's Suzuki Alto), a full set of new tyres, and no need for a service for 12 months (along with zero VED).
Finance is a few hundred quid down (which you'll get back in equity at the end of the deal) and £100-140 per month (£1,200-£1,680 per year) with the only extra costs likely to be between £100-200 a year for servicing.
Sure, bangernomics is cheaper, and you might get lucky and only spend £150 a year on maintenance, but if you need the car to get to work, and don't have access to a spare or alternative transport then I wouldn't be risking it. You also have the added bonus of all the electrical items and the a/c working, a car which doesn't smell of the previous owner's dog and your choice of colour.
Not a petrolhead's explanation for sure, but a logical and balanced argument for someone who usually runs mid-age used cars to get into a new one as a way to drive something nicer, and potentially save some money as well.
With the new emissions stuff in London on the way (which will hit older petrol cars too) I can see even more people following this route.
I'm not sure it will be viable to own a 10 year old car in the future.
A battery change can cost £500 nowadays, a headlight bulb change £300 or more. These costs will drop a bit, but not much.
It will be increasingly hard to avoid the dealers thanks to proprietary software and the need to interface with it. The alternative will be independents that have shelled out for the relevant kit, they need to make the money back on that stuff, so the bills won't be massively cheaper.
There is also the issue where an independent does work, but doesn't have a full understanding of the system, the car still its right and ends up going to the dealer to sort out - costing more in the long run.
I think it looks pretty bleak for car ownership in the future to be honest. Of course, its exactly that the manufacturers want, they'd much rather hook you in to 3 year lease deals that will be expensive.
A battery change can cost £500 nowadays, a headlight bulb change £300 or more. These costs will drop a bit, but not much.
It will be increasingly hard to avoid the dealers thanks to proprietary software and the need to interface with it. The alternative will be independents that have shelled out for the relevant kit, they need to make the money back on that stuff, so the bills won't be massively cheaper.
There is also the issue where an independent does work, but doesn't have a full understanding of the system, the car still its right and ends up going to the dealer to sort out - costing more in the long run.
I think it looks pretty bleak for car ownership in the future to be honest. Of course, its exactly that the manufacturers want, they'd much rather hook you in to 3 year lease deals that will be expensive.
esuuv said:
Crafty_ said:
A battery change can cost £500 nowadays, a headlight bulb change £300 or more. These costs will drop a bit, but not much.
What do you drive !! Labour rate £120 an hour inc. VAT
First of all, you have to plug in diagnostic gear and let it run a diagnostic check. About 45mins £90.
New battery: £240
Fit new battery and go through a coding procedure that resets the learning on the power management ECU. 1.25 hours £150
Or something around there.
The alternative is you go to Halfords, chuck in a new battery at half the cost, don't have the ECU reset. The power management gets confused, because it tries to treat the new battery like the old one, eventually one day the car doesn't start, jump start gets it running again, everything looks ok,, a while later it won't start again.. Eventually the car is recovered to the dealer who reset the power management, car is fit and well again.
Both cars appeared at the dealer during the same week.
Pros
Safety
Warranties
Equipment
Xenons/HIDs
Fuel economy
Finance deals
Working electrics and AC etc
Cons
Overly complicated systems/electrics
Tied into main dealer servicing and maintenance
Oversized wheels and tyres
DRLs!
Bland formulaic(spelling) styling
Numb steering
Over servoed brakes
"Lesser" models dressed up to look like the top of the range model
I just find modern cars bland to be honest. I really can't think of a car available from a main dealer today at under 50k that I would be excited about owning. The tendency for modern cars to have huge wheels, small windows, overly large headlights and great gaping grills really doesn't appeal to me. I tend to find that when I drive a modern car for the first time I'm usually initially impressed by the fit and finish of the cabin and the level of kit but I'm ultimately disappointed by the drive. Numb steering, all or nothing brakes and general humongousness all conspire to sap any real enjoyment from the experience.
My better half decided she wanted a car from her youth, so we travelled the length of the country to pick up a mint mk2 1988 Fiesta XR2. Driving that thing is an absolute hoot. A couple of weeks later I got to drive my friends 2013 Abarth 595 Competizione and his 2014 Fiesta Ecoboost. In comparison with the XR2 other than the Abarth's addictive power delivery the XR2 is more fun in every way. It feels light and feisty and the non assisted steering whilst heavy at low speed is far more communicative and involving. I love it, yet it's not even the best hatch of it's era.
Don't get me wrong, owning and running old cars can be very trying, scarcity of parts can have you spending your Saturday hunting around scrap yards and there's almost always something that needs attention. But owning older rare cars can be so rewarding.
Safety
Warranties
Equipment
Xenons/HIDs
Fuel economy
Finance deals
Working electrics and AC etc
Cons
Overly complicated systems/electrics
Tied into main dealer servicing and maintenance
Oversized wheels and tyres
DRLs!
Bland formulaic(spelling) styling
Numb steering
Over servoed brakes
"Lesser" models dressed up to look like the top of the range model
I just find modern cars bland to be honest. I really can't think of a car available from a main dealer today at under 50k that I would be excited about owning. The tendency for modern cars to have huge wheels, small windows, overly large headlights and great gaping grills really doesn't appeal to me. I tend to find that when I drive a modern car for the first time I'm usually initially impressed by the fit and finish of the cabin and the level of kit but I'm ultimately disappointed by the drive. Numb steering, all or nothing brakes and general humongousness all conspire to sap any real enjoyment from the experience.
My better half decided she wanted a car from her youth, so we travelled the length of the country to pick up a mint mk2 1988 Fiesta XR2. Driving that thing is an absolute hoot. A couple of weeks later I got to drive my friends 2013 Abarth 595 Competizione and his 2014 Fiesta Ecoboost. In comparison with the XR2 other than the Abarth's addictive power delivery the XR2 is more fun in every way. It feels light and feisty and the non assisted steering whilst heavy at low speed is far more communicative and involving. I love it, yet it's not even the best hatch of it's era.
Don't get me wrong, owning and running old cars can be very trying, scarcity of parts can have you spending your Saturday hunting around scrap yards and there's almost always something that needs attention. But owning older rare cars can be so rewarding.
jamiebae said:
If you're not really a car person it makes a huge amount of sense (as long as you don't need a big car).
My sister in law was finally persuaded that a new car on finance is the way to go after years of running 5-10 year old superminis[/b[. Running an old car, when the limit of your mechanical knowledge is filling it with petrol can be a minefield, and in a good year her garage bills were £500 (a service, an MoT, a tyre or two and whatever bit of suspension or emissions equipment London's speed bumps had destroyed that year), in a bad year it was over £1k. [b]During this time the car is still depreciating, maybe only by a few hundred pounds a year, but enough to put the running costs including VED but excluding insurance into the region of £1-2k per year.
£1000-1500 depreciation on a 5-10 year old supermini every year ?My sister in law was finally persuaded that a new car on finance is the way to go after years of running 5-10 year old superminis[/b[. Running an old car, when the limit of your mechanical knowledge is filling it with petrol can be a minefield, and in a good year her garage bills were £500 (a service, an MoT, a tyre or two and whatever bit of suspension or emissions equipment London's speed bumps had destroyed that year), in a bad year it was over £1k. [b]During this time the car is still depreciating, maybe only by a few hundred pounds a year, but enough to put the running costs including VED but excluding insurance into the region of £1-2k per year.
Really ?
Crafty_ said:
£1000-1500 depreciation on a 5-10 year old supermini every year ?
Really ?
No, but £500-£1k easily, if you buy from a used car dealer and run it for 3 or so years. If it's newer then it loses more money, if it's older it's more likely to need stuff doing but if you pay £3k for a Clio from a dealer today you wouldn't expect to see more than £1k back after 3 years I'm sure.Really ?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff