RE: New Volvo turbo engine details
Tuesday 7th October 2014
'Drive-E' doesn't sound like the most promising of powertrain names for a new performance engine. But 'Triple Boost Technology' certainly does. In fact there's quite a lot to be excited about with Volvo's latest performance engine, 450hp for one.
Downsized fours for new SUVs like XC90It's the latest in Volvo's Drive-E modular family of four-cylinder engines. Triple Boost Technology isn't a tri-turbo engine as in the BMW M50d models but instead a twin-turbo engine with an electrically powered turbo compressor. The air from the compressor is used only to spool the parallel turbos and isn't fed into the cylinders, in theory eliminating any lag and thereby improving throttle response.
Potential for 225hp per litre Polestars interesting...There are of size and weight benefits too when compared with similarly powerful but physically larger engines. Lowers the centre of gravity too. And going by the clip of the S60 punting around a test track on the vid below it sounds pretty cool too.
New Volvo turbo engine details
Two litres, two turbos, a 'turbo-compressor' and 450hp; Volvo's take on downsizing sounds good to us
Downsized fours for new SUVs like XC90
Both Polestar and Denso have been involved in the development of the High Performance Drive-E engine. Mattias Evensson is Polestar's Race Engine Director and said of the new triple boost motor: "This was a very exciting project as we pioneered a combination of technologies in the same application, and the result is a quite unique engine with its high power yet quick response."
Potential for 225hp per litre Polestars interesting...
The entire Drive-E engine project is there to reduce emissions but it's nice to see Volvo hasn't entirely forgotten the enthusiast in this. Where will it be used? Who knows, but a more powerful V60 Polestar to take on the Audi RS4 and Mercedes C63 sounds like a good idea to us.
Geeky but interesting Volvo tech vid here
Discussion
450bhp in a production 2 litre is very impressive, whichever way you look at it.
Also interesting to see these electronic turbo spoolers entering mainstream production.
Very happy that these 'eco' engines are being pushed towards the performance side of things.
Eta
I wonder what an elise/exige would be like with one of these and a few tweaks.
500bhp with a simple remap anyone?
Also interesting to see these electronic turbo spoolers entering mainstream production.
Very happy that these 'eco' engines are being pushed towards the performance side of things.
Eta
I wonder what an elise/exige would be like with one of these and a few tweaks.
500bhp with a simple remap anyone?
Edited by FussyFez on Tuesday 7th October 10:55
FussyFez said:
500bhp with a simple remap anyone?
Suspect that with two turbos and a magical electronic boost generator it might be quite a complex remap. 
But yes. 
Would like to see a dyno plot of this engine... when does the boost come in, how much are they running, where does the torque and power peak?
Really interesting video. 225bhp per litre is amazing, and it sounds like, fairly reliable which is the biggest hurdle.
Would be very interested to learn how they use the e-compressor, i.e. does the compressor feed air into the exhaust turbine, if so you could have some pretty, shall we say, 'dynamic' exhaust events (thinking lots of noise and flame here). It's essentially a more refined and importantly fuel efficient anti lag system you used to see in the WRC in the 90's.
The car in the video sounds fantastic too.
Would be very interested to learn how they use the e-compressor, i.e. does the compressor feed air into the exhaust turbine, if so you could have some pretty, shall we say, 'dynamic' exhaust events (thinking lots of noise and flame here). It's essentially a more refined and importantly fuel efficient anti lag system you used to see in the WRC in the 90's.
The car in the video sounds fantastic too.
Max_Torque said:
Two similarly sized turbochargers split across two cylinders each? er why? If you are talking about boost threshold and ultimate power you can get more benefit from a single twin scroll VGT unit.
Don't even really need VGT with the e-boost on there. Unless it's a cost thing, although I struggle to see how even two small turbos are comparable on cost compared.Max_Torque said:
Two similarly sized turbochargers split across two cylinders each? er why? If you are talking about boost threshold and ultimate power you can get more benefit from a single twin scroll VGT unit.
Smaller ones more reactive to changing boost, more efficient for the same power, possibly?Found some bigger/different pictures here: http://www.multivu.com/players/English/72762550-vo...
Does anyone make Gasoline VGTs reliably? I thought gas temps were too high for them to be reliable. Two turbos also allows you to reject more heat. (at this sort of power density and whilst trying to be 'eco' that'd be a real challenge).
I'd be interested to know if you can run the e-turbo to drive the conventional turbos and achieve big scavenging, by creating negative pressure pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold?
Does anyone make Gasoline VGTs reliably? I thought gas temps were too high for them to be reliable. Two turbos also allows you to reject more heat. (at this sort of power density and whilst trying to be 'eco' that'd be a real challenge).
I'd be interested to know if you can run the e-turbo to drive the conventional turbos and achieve big scavenging, by creating negative pressure pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold?
Mr.Jimbo said:
Found some bigger/different pictures here: http://www.multivu.com/players/English/72762550-vo...
Does anyone make Gasoline VGTs reliably? I thought gas temps were too high for them to be reliable. Two turbos also allows you to reject more heat. (at this sort of power density and whilst trying to be 'eco' that'd be a real challenge).
I'd be interested to know if you can run the e-turbo to drive the conventional turbos and achieve big scavenging, by creating negative pressure pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold?
Borg Warner made the VGT turbos that have been fitted to the 911 Turbo for the last couple of generations. They make an uprated pair as well, at prohibitive expense.Does anyone make Gasoline VGTs reliably? I thought gas temps were too high for them to be reliable. Two turbos also allows you to reject more heat. (at this sort of power density and whilst trying to be 'eco' that'd be a real challenge).
I'd be interested to know if you can run the e-turbo to drive the conventional turbos and achieve big scavenging, by creating negative pressure pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold?
Not taken off elsewhere though - I would assume it comes entirely down to cost. Charging 100k+ for a car affords you some more pricey components...
Volvo said:
The 450 hp High Performance Drive-E Powertrain Concept is based on a set of technologies not usually found in a four cylinder engine. The engine utilizes two parallel turbochargers, which are fed by an electrically powered turbo-compressor. The compressed air from this unit, rather than being fed to the cylinders, is instead used to spool up the two parallel turbochargers. Fuel is fed by a dual fuel pump working at 250 bar pressure. With this kind of power density, this triple boost installation and unique fuel system, enables a very dynamic drivability without any turbo lag, compared to a mono-turbo.
So...I got it wrong.Not sure interpreting correctly, they use the third compressor to shove air into the turbine side on the two main turbo-chargers, so it's a bit like anti-lag only more so?
Sounds like a good idea (and about time someone tried this
). There will still be some lag, but I think it'll be so small that all is forgiven when the boost arrives.
Would think the two smaller turbos rather than one big one is intended to give lower rotating inertia, less lag. The third compressor reduces lag but it would have to overcome the inertia either way, with less inertia there's less for it to do so they accelerate faster. Or something like that?
I do hope that we finally see some flavour of e-charger make it to market at long last and if Volvo are the ones to do it, it'll be good. They may not make the most dynamic cars but their engines are smashing (for boosted engines).
Sounds like a good idea (and about time someone tried this
). There will still be some lag, but I think it'll be so small that all is forgiven when the boost arrives.Would think the two smaller turbos rather than one big one is intended to give lower rotating inertia, less lag. The third compressor reduces lag but it would have to overcome the inertia either way, with less inertia there's less for it to do so they accelerate faster. Or something like that?
I do hope that we finally see some flavour of e-charger make it to market at long last and if Volvo are the ones to do it, it'll be good. They may not make the most dynamic cars but their engines are smashing (for boosted engines).
Edited by scarble on Tuesday 7th October 12:45
Mr.Jimbo said:
Really interesting video. 225bhp per litre is amazing, and it sounds like, fairly reliable which is the biggest hurdle.
Would be very interested to learn how they use the e-compressor, i.e. does the compressor feed air into the exhaust turbine, if so you could have some pretty, shall we say, 'dynamic' exhaust events (thinking lots of noise and flame here). It's essentially a more refined and importantly fuel efficient anti lag system you used to see in the WRC in the 90's.
The car in the video sounds fantastic too.
unfortunately not - the WRC anti-lag system relies on retarding the ignition and not using a fuel cut in the map for closed throttle, so that the air-fuel mix ignites with the exhaust valve open, the expansion of gasses produced escapes through the exhaust into the turbo which spins up to maintain boost levels and gives you the bangs and flames, without producing any significant crankshaft output - and significantly reduced lifespan of your turbo and exhaust system!Would be very interested to learn how they use the e-compressor, i.e. does the compressor feed air into the exhaust turbine, if so you could have some pretty, shall we say, 'dynamic' exhaust events (thinking lots of noise and flame here). It's essentially a more refined and importantly fuel efficient anti lag system you used to see in the WRC in the 90's.
The car in the video sounds fantastic too.
This system will just blow air in to increase the relative airflow through the turbine to spin up the turbo quicker - presumably on partial throttle, and the fuel cut parameters in the engine mapping will mean there is no fuel around for the fireworks
Edited by filski666 on Tuesday 7th October 13:10
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff