Jaguar XF 3.0D vs Peugeot RCZ GT 200 (random but... help!)
Discussion
Yes yes I know they are COMPLETELY different cars.
But for this particular argument, they are the only two cars I'm considering.
My 1993 MX-5 is too noisy/high revs at motorways speeds, and the Seat Leon 1.9D I bought for the commute has proved uncomfortable (I'm oddly more comfy in the MX-5!), not quite as good MPG as I had hoped at those speeds (55mpg at 60 but at 'world realistic motorway speeds' I'm getting 45mpg - still good, but...) and just a tad dull/old.
Both the Pug and the Jaaaaag should do 42mpg combined and from everything I've read in forums they cruise nicely at the higher speeds with low revs and are pretty economical.
I can get a 2009/2010 model of each for a similar price tag - ok, the Jag will have twice (or even three times) as many miles on it, but it's a good solid diesel so that doesn't concern me too much.
I love smaller, sportier cars though (I'd found a 3 series beamer heavy and dull) and thought the Jag had no chance.
I test drove a 156bhp RCZ and fell in love with the handling, but it felt a tad underpowered - the 200bhp model it is then.
Then I took the 239bhp Jag for a spin and also fell in love. There was barely any deisel/turbo/auto lag (and the flappy paddles help if you need to drop down a gear to pull away quicker) and oooodles of oomph. I guess the torque is the key.
Yes it's f**King huge, but felt suprisingly nimble - more so that the heavy BMW (it was a hard top convertible and don't think it was well balanced). What I haven't done is take it for a drive on a country road though - I need to do that, although admittedly the commute is all motorway.
So today I took a 200bhp RCZ for a spin. MUCH better.
But as nice as the Jag???
I can't decide.
That particular RCZ was very low mileage and as a result a result somewhat over my budget. They only offered me 2 grand for the Leon too. And the 200bhp model is rarer/higher priced; I believe you can chip the 156bhp model but I'd need to do more research as to the pros and cons.
The Jag was well priced and I have effectively been offered £2800 for the Leon. VERY tempted (I only bought it 2-3 months ago for 3500).
BUT: it's done 140k!!
I will do 20K a year.
The honest truth though is, whichever I decide to go with, the MAX I will keep is probably only a year anyway. The last few years I've had two cars only 3 months, a couple 6 months, and one that almost made it a year. I'm finicky, and get bored.
So I'm thinking, even if the Jag isn't my typical fun light sports car (and I have the old MX-5 for fun still), it will be ideal for the commute and the auto will be great when I hit any jams; even if I decide to change again in 3-6 months, I won't have added much extra mileage. I'd had a look and there's a couple out there with 150/160K on the clock and they are priced at a grand more than this one anyway... so I shouldn't loose out...?
I think the lure of having a 'Jaaaaaggg' is pulling me away from the sensible (ish) and somewhat less luxurious (brand name anyway, the car IS luxurious) Peugeot...
The Jag's insurance will be £100, £150 more, but I can accept that. Service costs seem to be quite similar between the two... parts could be pricer on the Jag though.
Is there anything else I'm missing/should be considering? I've heard stories about the XF intercooler blowing up so I need to check into that more... the Pug sounds suprisingly reliable...
Thoughts and opinions please - this could be an interesting debate
But for this particular argument, they are the only two cars I'm considering.
My 1993 MX-5 is too noisy/high revs at motorways speeds, and the Seat Leon 1.9D I bought for the commute has proved uncomfortable (I'm oddly more comfy in the MX-5!), not quite as good MPG as I had hoped at those speeds (55mpg at 60 but at 'world realistic motorway speeds' I'm getting 45mpg - still good, but...) and just a tad dull/old.
Both the Pug and the Jaaaaag should do 42mpg combined and from everything I've read in forums they cruise nicely at the higher speeds with low revs and are pretty economical.
I can get a 2009/2010 model of each for a similar price tag - ok, the Jag will have twice (or even three times) as many miles on it, but it's a good solid diesel so that doesn't concern me too much.
I love smaller, sportier cars though (I'd found a 3 series beamer heavy and dull) and thought the Jag had no chance.
I test drove a 156bhp RCZ and fell in love with the handling, but it felt a tad underpowered - the 200bhp model it is then.
Then I took the 239bhp Jag for a spin and also fell in love. There was barely any deisel/turbo/auto lag (and the flappy paddles help if you need to drop down a gear to pull away quicker) and oooodles of oomph. I guess the torque is the key.
Yes it's f**King huge, but felt suprisingly nimble - more so that the heavy BMW (it was a hard top convertible and don't think it was well balanced). What I haven't done is take it for a drive on a country road though - I need to do that, although admittedly the commute is all motorway.
So today I took a 200bhp RCZ for a spin. MUCH better.
But as nice as the Jag???
I can't decide.
That particular RCZ was very low mileage and as a result a result somewhat over my budget. They only offered me 2 grand for the Leon too. And the 200bhp model is rarer/higher priced; I believe you can chip the 156bhp model but I'd need to do more research as to the pros and cons.
The Jag was well priced and I have effectively been offered £2800 for the Leon. VERY tempted (I only bought it 2-3 months ago for 3500).
BUT: it's done 140k!!
I will do 20K a year.
The honest truth though is, whichever I decide to go with, the MAX I will keep is probably only a year anyway. The last few years I've had two cars only 3 months, a couple 6 months, and one that almost made it a year. I'm finicky, and get bored.
So I'm thinking, even if the Jag isn't my typical fun light sports car (and I have the old MX-5 for fun still), it will be ideal for the commute and the auto will be great when I hit any jams; even if I decide to change again in 3-6 months, I won't have added much extra mileage. I'd had a look and there's a couple out there with 150/160K on the clock and they are priced at a grand more than this one anyway... so I shouldn't loose out...?
I think the lure of having a 'Jaaaaaggg' is pulling me away from the sensible (ish) and somewhat less luxurious (brand name anyway, the car IS luxurious) Peugeot...
The Jag's insurance will be £100, £150 more, but I can accept that. Service costs seem to be quite similar between the two... parts could be pricer on the Jag though.
Is there anything else I'm missing/should be considering? I've heard stories about the XF intercooler blowing up so I need to check into that more... the Pug sounds suprisingly reliable...
Thoughts and opinions please - this could be an interesting debate
Not sure how important fuel economy is to you, but 40+mpg in the Jag is only likely if you only ever tickle the throttle very gently and keep the speed down on motorways. I have a 3.0D S (my second), and while it's done 45mpg on several long trips where I've been trying to be exceptionally economical, 28-35mpg per tankful is more normal depending on length of journey/town use/right foot control.
In my last XF-S I averaged 31mpg over 13k miles, which considering I did 27mpg in a 350Z over a similar length of ownership (and driving style/usage) and 30mpg in a mapped 9-5 Aero, isn't exactly brilliant.
In my last XF-S I averaged 31mpg over 13k miles, which considering I did 27mpg in a 350Z over a similar length of ownership (and driving style/usage) and 30mpg in a mapped 9-5 Aero, isn't exactly brilliant.
Part exchanged my FR Leon for an XF-S 3.0D earlier in the year 
Echoing the poster above, I get 30-35mpg on long 70mph roads. I get around 17mpg around Milton Keynes thanks to the roundabouts. Handles really well for such a big heavy car, although parking is now much more faffy thanks to the long overhangs and the short car parking spaces. Parking sensors are a must, rear parking camera is a lovely gadget It's a noticably wider car, and it may take a little while to get used to that down the country lanes.
The Jag is a lovely car but for the high mileage models you're looking at, you should consider how much more difficult it's going to be to get rid of even in a few months time. There are far more lower mileage cars out there with the market continually refreshed by lease vehicles coming through dealers like Stratstone. I spent months watching the classifieds looking for my vehicle, you can watch the 80k+ mileage cars go round and round a discount loop for months.
Bit of a warning on the insurance front. The annual cost difference may not be much, but the compulsory excess can be considerably higher. Aviva bumped my excess up from £300 on the Leon to £800 on the Jag. Typical price comparisons come renewal time were between £350 and £500 excess values, keep that in mind should you have a prang.
The 20" rubber on the Jag is also quite a bit more expensive compared to the Leon, I expect the 19" would be a little bit cheaper but it's still a bit of a shock when you're used to Michelins costing £120 a corner. The RCZ probably benefits from the cheaper rubber costs on the smaller wheels.
I made the swap as I needed the additional boot space for the nipper, can you honestly say that you would need a car the size of a Jag? If you pick the correct trim level (Premium luxury or Portfolio, ignore the luxury), it's a very very lovely place to be compared to the old plastic of the Leon, but it all comes at a cost.
It does sound like you'd have more of a hoot in the RCZ though.
Echoing the poster above, I get 30-35mpg on long 70mph roads. I get around 17mpg around Milton Keynes thanks to the roundabouts. Handles really well for such a big heavy car, although parking is now much more faffy thanks to the long overhangs and the short car parking spaces. Parking sensors are a must, rear parking camera is a lovely gadget
It's a noticably wider car, and it may take a little while to get used to that down the country lanes.The Jag is a lovely car but for the high mileage models you're looking at, you should consider how much more difficult it's going to be to get rid of even in a few months time. There are far more lower mileage cars out there with the market continually refreshed by lease vehicles coming through dealers like Stratstone. I spent months watching the classifieds looking for my vehicle, you can watch the 80k+ mileage cars go round and round a discount loop for months.
Bit of a warning on the insurance front. The annual cost difference may not be much, but the compulsory excess can be considerably higher. Aviva bumped my excess up from £300 on the Leon to £800 on the Jag. Typical price comparisons come renewal time were between £350 and £500 excess values, keep that in mind should you have a prang.
The 20" rubber on the Jag is also quite a bit more expensive compared to the Leon, I expect the 19" would be a little bit cheaper but it's still a bit of a shock when you're used to Michelins costing £120 a corner. The RCZ probably benefits from the cheaper rubber costs on the smaller wheels.
I made the swap as I needed the additional boot space for the nipper, can you honestly say that you would need a car the size of a Jag? If you pick the correct trim level (Premium luxury or Portfolio, ignore the luxury), it's a very very lovely place to be compared to the old plastic of the Leon, but it all comes at a cost.
It does sound like you'd have more of a hoot in the RCZ though.
Edited by eltawater on Sunday 9th November 22:14
Thanks mate... some very good points there. Hadn't considered the excess thing... mind you, I see insurance as a necessary evil and take it out for legal requirements with high excess normally anyway and hoping never to have to claim anyway - i guess insurance is a form of gambling in that sense. 19 years and not have to make any claims yet, touch wood and watch that black cat etc, let's hope I can carry on that way!!
MPG wise though that's disappointing. I could have sworn I'd read on some Jag forums owners getting high 40s, 45mph doing long runs at above 70, and some saying you could get 50mpg 'without much effort'. Is that a steady 70mph or lots of slowing down/accelerating again? I have a very steady run down the A46 and M69, almost constant speed.
MPG wise though that's disappointing. I could have sworn I'd read on some Jag forums owners getting high 40s, 45mph doing long runs at above 70, and some saying you could get 50mpg 'without much effort'. Is that a steady 70mph or lots of slowing down/accelerating again? I have a very steady run down the A46 and M69, almost constant speed.
The best I've seen so far has been 39mpg and that was thanks to the traffic keeping the flow down to 60mph 
If you have a long enough journey then you may well be able ease out the 45mpg+ on it, but the minute you start on the town driving or fast short dual carriageways, that will likely plummet significantly (and that's part of the fun!).
Quite frankly it would be a criminal waste of a great engine and a great car. You may as well waft along in an Octavia and reap the fuel economy benefits.
If you have a long enough journey then you may well be able ease out the 45mpg+ on it, but the minute you start on the town driving or fast short dual carriageways, that will likely plummet significantly (and that's part of the fun!).
Quite frankly it would be a criminal waste of a great engine and a great car. You may as well waft along in an Octavia and reap the fuel economy benefits.
Another XF-S owner here. I think Eltawater & I have must have very differing driving styles as I somehow find it very difficult to get sub 30mpg - but I don't tend to do much stop/start/short journeys. Long term average over 2.5 yrs is around 36-37mpg. Best I've had is 50mpg on a Euro trip stint (40.1mpg avg over 1600 miles inclusive of derestricted autobahn cruising at 130mph). Think I just drive it as my previous 3 petrol V8s - just ride the huge torque & waft. I find there's no benefit in thrashing it (bar the occasional 0-very naughty in not a lot, just for kicks). I've been very happy with my XF, no problems what-so-ever. Beautiful inside & out (IMHO), soothing yet interesting to drive when you're in the mood to press on. Can feel a bit wide on narrow country lanes but feels/fits in fine everywhere else.
Sorry Hammerhead but you must drive like a saint!
I've had 3 XF's in succession from a 2.7 to 2 x 3S whilst based with the forces in Germany.
The 2.7 averaged 27mpg whilst the other two were between 31 and 34mpg. I've done 1000's of miles on Autobahns at varying speeds even doing full tanks exclusively on them. To obtain anything in the late 30's early 40's I had to maintain 68mph without any excessive right foot action.
Op, the Jag is a beautiful place to be in and it will munch miles with ease. But please don't base your decision on official MPG figues. Have you gone over to http://www.jaginfo.org/forum.php great bunch over there and they're all current owners that can give you all the info you want.
If you want more power, the S can be tuned quite easily above 300bhp with unbelievable torque. You can also upgrade the exhaust for the Spire quad which makes it sound very un-diesel like! Good luck and all the best with your buying.
I've had 3 XF's in succession from a 2.7 to 2 x 3S whilst based with the forces in Germany.
The 2.7 averaged 27mpg whilst the other two were between 31 and 34mpg. I've done 1000's of miles on Autobahns at varying speeds even doing full tanks exclusively on them. To obtain anything in the late 30's early 40's I had to maintain 68mph without any excessive right foot action.
Op, the Jag is a beautiful place to be in and it will munch miles with ease. But please don't base your decision on official MPG figues. Have you gone over to http://www.jaginfo.org/forum.php great bunch over there and they're all current owners that can give you all the info you want.
If you want more power, the S can be tuned quite easily above 300bhp with unbelievable torque. You can also upgrade the exhaust for the Spire quad which makes it sound very un-diesel like! Good luck and all the best with your buying.
No idea about the Peugeot RCZ GT 200, but I own an XF 3.0D, so here is what I like and don't.
The Good:
+ It feels special every time I sit inside, even after 3 years.
+ POWER!
+ Gearbox and breaks are amazing, steering is okay.
+ Very comfortable and quite. Ideal for long distance journeys.
+ Mine has proven flawless so far. (Others will tell you other stories.)
The bad:
- Too big and too heavy for narrow B roads. It is a lot bigger on the road than it looks when parked.
- Fuel economy. While 50+ MPG are possible, 30 MPG is more realistic. Especially in the city centre it turned out to be very thirsty indeed.
- Too many electric gimmicks make me worried about the gremlins if the car gets older. (I wouldn't want to own a 10 year old one.)
- If you get a diesel, you can hardly hear the engine. When I drive using the flappy paddles, I often forget to change up, simply because i can't hear the damn thing. Getting a petrol V8 is fixing that issue, yes, but it also destroys fuel economy.
Would I buy one again? ... I am thinking about doing just that. While there are cars that might drive better, I can't think of one I would enjoy being in as much, at least not in that price range.
The Good:
+ It feels special every time I sit inside, even after 3 years.
+ POWER!
+ Gearbox and breaks are amazing, steering is okay.
+ Very comfortable and quite. Ideal for long distance journeys.
+ Mine has proven flawless so far. (Others will tell you other stories.)
The bad:
- Too big and too heavy for narrow B roads. It is a lot bigger on the road than it looks when parked.
- Fuel economy. While 50+ MPG are possible, 30 MPG is more realistic. Especially in the city centre it turned out to be very thirsty indeed.
- Too many electric gimmicks make me worried about the gremlins if the car gets older. (I wouldn't want to own a 10 year old one.)
- If you get a diesel, you can hardly hear the engine. When I drive using the flappy paddles, I often forget to change up, simply because i can't hear the damn thing. Getting a petrol V8 is fixing that issue, yes, but it also destroys fuel economy.
Would I buy one again? ... I am thinking about doing just that. While there are cars that might drive better, I can't think of one I would enjoy being in as much, at least not in that price range.
Newro said:
No idea about the Peugeot RCZ GT 200, but I own an XF 3.0D, so here is what I like and don't.
The Good:
+ It feels special every time I sit inside, even after 3 years.
+ POWER!
+ Gearbox and breaks are amazing, steering is okay.
+ Very comfortable and quite. Ideal for long distance journeys.
+ Mine has proven flawless so far. (Others will tell you other stories.)
The bad:
- Too big and too heavy for narrow B roads. It is a lot bigger on the road than it looks when parked.
- Fuel economy. While 50+ MPG are possible, 30 MPG is more realistic. Especially in the city centre it turned out to be very thirsty indeed.
- Too many electric gimmicks make me worried about the gremlins if the car gets older. (I wouldn't want to own a 10 year old one.)
- If you get a diesel, you can hardly hear the engine. When I drive using the flappy paddles, I often forget to change up, simply because i can't hear the damn thing. Getting a petrol V8 is fixing that issue, yes, but it also destroys fuel economy.
Would I buy one again? ... I am thinking about doing just that. While there are cars that might drive better, I can't think of one I would enjoy being in as much, at least not in that price range.
I suspect this would tend to be in most people's 'good' column. The Good:
+ It feels special every time I sit inside, even after 3 years.
+ POWER!
+ Gearbox and breaks are amazing, steering is okay.
+ Very comfortable and quite. Ideal for long distance journeys.
+ Mine has proven flawless so far. (Others will tell you other stories.)
The bad:
- Too big and too heavy for narrow B roads. It is a lot bigger on the road than it looks when parked.
- Fuel economy. While 50+ MPG are possible, 30 MPG is more realistic. Especially in the city centre it turned out to be very thirsty indeed.
- Too many electric gimmicks make me worried about the gremlins if the car gets older. (I wouldn't want to own a 10 year old one.)
- If you get a diesel, you can hardly hear the engine. When I drive using the flappy paddles, I often forget to change up, simply because i can't hear the damn thing. Getting a petrol V8 is fixing that issue, yes, but it also destroys fuel economy.
Would I buy one again? ... I am thinking about doing just that. While there are cars that might drive better, I can't think of one I would enjoy being in as much, at least not in that price range.
I'm about to sell my 2010 XF 3.0D Premium after almost 2 years, I would agree with the economy being 30-34 mpg in mixed use driving, the engine is quiet, if pressing on with the paddles I tend to switch off the (very good) stereo so I can hear what's going on.
It is not as comfortable as you would expect imho, certainly no magic carpet, and on 19's it thumps along a bit so 20's will be worse. But it handles very well and can be flung along a B road very happily. They are smaller than they look too, although rear visibility isn't brilliant so I too find the parking camera very useful. Huge boot too, and the cabin is a very pleasant place to be. Very recommended!
Interested how much you are having to shell out for a 140k one, bet it isn't much less than I will be offered for my freshly serviced 50k one.... hint...
Edited to make sense...
It is not as comfortable as you would expect imho, certainly no magic carpet, and on 19's it thumps along a bit so 20's will be worse. But it handles very well and can be flung along a B road very happily. They are smaller than they look too, although rear visibility isn't brilliant so I too find the parking camera very useful. Huge boot too, and the cabin is a very pleasant place to be. Very recommended!
Interested how much you are having to shell out for a 140k one, bet it isn't much less than I will be offered for my freshly serviced 50k one.... hint...
Edited to make sense...
Edited by pacoryan on Monday 10th November 14:43
I'm going to throw the spanner in here as I've recently looked at an XF Jag with the same motor and yes, was very impressed with it, also impressed the first time I drove a C350 Mercedes.
Both of these cars gave the impression of pace which I wasn't immediately expecting and both, at the time, when test driving a 'unfamiliar' car felt stronger than what I was driving. However, on both occasions, my 330D felt just as impressive on the journey home.
I've only driven the Jag once but after (a lot) of consideration decided against it, the second time I drove a C350 I wasn't so impressed, as a result I've just updated what I had slightly until I decide excatly what I want.
Perhaps my advice is to take the Jag for another drive and see how you feel now your expectations are higher (it was stil a very nice place to be though)
Both of these cars gave the impression of pace which I wasn't immediately expecting and both, at the time, when test driving a 'unfamiliar' car felt stronger than what I was driving. However, on both occasions, my 330D felt just as impressive on the journey home.
I've only driven the Jag once but after (a lot) of consideration decided against it, the second time I drove a C350 I wasn't so impressed, as a result I've just updated what I had slightly until I decide excatly what I want.
Perhaps my advice is to take the Jag for another drive and see how you feel now your expectations are higher (it was stil a very nice place to be though)
Patrick Bateman said:
I suspect this would tend to be in most people's 'good' column.
But on PH? Not so sure As pacoryan said, realisticly one has to turn the stereo off to have a chance of guessing the revs without looking.
pacoryan said:
It is not as comfortable as you would expect imho, certainly no magic carpet, and on 19's it thumps along a bit so 20's will be worse.
Interesting. It really has to do with personal preferences. I used to test drive the S-Type years ago and found the handling utterly disappointing. Not because it was bad, but because it wasn't what I was expecting.
From the way it was priced and with it's RWD layout, I expected something to rival BMW 5 Series kind of handling. However, the only car I've ever driven that felt anything like the S-Type was a 90s Mercedes S-Class. Something a lot of people would probably consider a huge compliment for a car half the price. But while an S-Class might be one of the most comfortable cars, it also feels completely detached from the road. Ideal for the German Autobahn, not great for windy mountain roads.
The XF is a huge change, clearly geared at younger drivers. Younger as in under 50. Yes, it sacrificed some comfort, but it is so much more fun to throw into corners. In comparison, it is still miles away from hard riding sports cars, and very comfortable by most standards.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff