BMW says heyday of sports car is over
Discussion
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/in...
Somme interesting points hère. i am beginning to think that they heyday of the car a a whole is over.
Somme interesting points hère. i am beginning to think that they heyday of the car a a whole is over.
RDMcG said:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/in...
Somme interesting points hère. i am beginning to think that they heyday of the car a a whole is over.
That's going a bit far, what is going to be the replacement for the car? Skateboards?Somme interesting points hère. i am beginning to think that they heyday of the car a a whole is over.
RDMcG said:
St John Smythe said:
That's going a bit far, what is going to be the replacement for the car? Skateboards?
I am thinking of the car as something for pleasure rather than a bunch of autonomous boxes on the road, silently boring us all to death
I don't think the heyday of the car, or more specifically the sports car, is over, but as with everything things change over time.
Living in Brighton, with the most anti-car Council there is, I've definitely seen people's attitudes to cars change since the Greens came to power... But then people still need personal mobility, and even if every car in Brighton was a hybrid or whatever the gridlock the Greens seem intent on causing (never-ending roadworks to narrow roads with bus and cycle lanes...) wouldn't be resolved - they're still cars after all.
The other factor I feel is changing attitudes towards cars is that they once represented freedom, fun and, to a small degree status, but with the sheer number of cars on Britain's roads driving has become almost the opposite of freedom and fun and now you can order any common or garden base spec model and then bling it up from the factory to look high end.
I think at the end of the day you have to look at recent sea-changes in everyday life - digital photography or streaming films, for example, whereby the photos and films are still there but consumed in a slightly different way - and realise that's what's happening with cars...
Living in Brighton, with the most anti-car Council there is, I've definitely seen people's attitudes to cars change since the Greens came to power... But then people still need personal mobility, and even if every car in Brighton was a hybrid or whatever the gridlock the Greens seem intent on causing (never-ending roadworks to narrow roads with bus and cycle lanes...) wouldn't be resolved - they're still cars after all.
The other factor I feel is changing attitudes towards cars is that they once represented freedom, fun and, to a small degree status, but with the sheer number of cars on Britain's roads driving has become almost the opposite of freedom and fun and now you can order any common or garden base spec model and then bling it up from the factory to look high end.
I think at the end of the day you have to look at recent sea-changes in everyday life - digital photography or streaming films, for example, whereby the photos and films are still there but consumed in a slightly different way - and realise that's what's happening with cars...
“The sports-car market is roughly half of what it used to be,” Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales
“Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”
Combined global sales of the TT, SLK and BMW’s Z4...
Firstly we need to agree what a Sports car is - because a TT isn't and most SLK aren't by my definition as RWD and manual are essential.
Secondly I'd argue that the older cars are far more fun than the vast majority or newer ones and fun is a key part of Sportcar ownership - not helped by blanket 40/50 zones over NSL roads.
“Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”
Combined global sales of the TT, SLK and BMW’s Z4...
Firstly we need to agree what a Sports car is - because a TT isn't and most SLK aren't by my definition as RWD and manual are essential.
Secondly I'd argue that the older cars are far more fun than the vast majority or newer ones and fun is a key part of Sportcar ownership - not helped by blanket 40/50 zones over NSL roads.
What a load!
Everyone conveniently forgets,
Everyone conveniently forgets,
- In the 1970s the only sportscars available were old clunkers like the MGB, Spitfire and Midget. E-types were selling for pennies because of the fuel crisis and Jensen Interceptors were completely unsaleable. Then BL launched the shocking TR7 fixed head
and Fiat X1/9s dissolved to rust in the first rain shower. - In the 1980s there were virtually no sportscars being sold at all. A small handful of the much improved TR7 convertibles, a handful of TVR wedges, a handful of Lotus Esprit/Excel and some front-engine Porsches.
- The big sportscar boom was in the 1990s with Mazda MX5 and Lotus Elise, TVR selling more cars than ever before and BMW/Mercedes starting to shift some convertibles.
- This carried into 2000s but lots of people were throwing cash at lumpen 4x4s and the whole sportscar business fell flat on its face in 2007.
- Anyone who thinks there are no decent sportscars on sale right now is bonkers. Cars like Boxster/Cayman, F-type, Corvette and forthcoming MX5 will always find customers who want an engaging drive. These cars from serious global manufacturers may leave little room for the shed-builders but that's only because the cars are so darned good!
I think it depends on how you define "sports cars". The relatively affordable end of the performance car market has certainly shifted significantly away from two-seaters and towards larger four-seat coupes and hot hatches.
Personally, I think there's a very good reason for this - hot hatches and fast saloons have got faster and more competent and sports cars have mostly got heavier and more dull so the gap between them in terms of driver appeal has closed dramatically. Why would anyone buy a Z4 when it really does nothing better than a 2-series but costs more and is less usable.
Having said that, even the manufacturers who do still produce decent drivers cars are suffering. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the 981 Boxster seems to be selling in much smaller numbers than the 987 did when that was released and I've still only seen a couple of V6 Exiges on the road.
Personally, I think there's a very good reason for this - hot hatches and fast saloons have got faster and more competent and sports cars have mostly got heavier and more dull so the gap between them in terms of driver appeal has closed dramatically. Why would anyone buy a Z4 when it really does nothing better than a 2-series but costs more and is less usable.
Having said that, even the manufacturers who do still produce decent drivers cars are suffering. Maybe it's just my imagination, but the 981 Boxster seems to be selling in much smaller numbers than the 987 did when that was released and I've still only seen a couple of V6 Exiges on the road.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 12th November 20:30
V8RX7 said:
“The sports-car market is roughly half of what it used to be,” Ian Robertson, BMW’s head of sales
“Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”
Combined global sales of the TT, SLK and BMW’s Z4...
Firstly we need to agree what a Sports car is - because a TT isn't and most SLK aren't by my definition as RWD and manual are essential.
Secondly I'd argue that the older cars are far more fun than the vast majority or newer ones and fun is a key part of Sportcar ownership - not helped by blanket 40/50 zones over NSL roads.
Don't be a t“Post-2008, it just collapsed. I’m not so sure it’ll ever fully recover.”
Combined global sales of the TT, SLK and BMW’s Z4...
Firstly we need to agree what a Sports car is - because a TT isn't and most SLK aren't by my definition as RWD and manual are essential.
Secondly I'd argue that the older cars are far more fun than the vast majority or newer ones and fun is a key part of Sportcar ownership - not helped by blanket 40/50 zones over NSL roads.
t lad. Im fairly sure BM's Head of Sales has a far far better and more importantly *relevant* definition of what constitutes a sports car than you. Your definition is irrelevant or rather what you think your definition is is irrelevant in the context of the market. Having said that though, Im not entirely sure he is correct. Porsche, Merc and Audi seem to have flogged a very healthy amount of Coxsters, 911s, SLKs and TTs. BMW's Z4 sales however, well...they have collapsed.
paranoid airbag said:
Sports cars will see the same fate as cameras. The truly single minded, no expense spared section of the market will remain. The cheap crap will remain (albeit, getting better all the time). The middle ground of people who *might* consider the extra expense disappears.
Has that happened with Cameras? The market for cheap, consumer grade digital SLRs appears to be enormous at the moment. St John Smythe said:
RDMcG said:
St John Smythe said:
That's going a bit far, what is going to be the replacement for the car? Skateboards?
I am thinking of the car as something for pleasure rather than a bunch of autonomous boxes on the road, silently boring us all to deathYears ago, you primarily saw the humdrum cars (Escort L or whatever). Today the equivalent is the four cylinder diesel 3-Series or similar. As cars are to most people a form of transport and nothing more, you would naturally see mostly the sensible and financially viable ones.
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