In-Car Electrickery.

[Scousefella]

So I was sat in front of the TV earlier and the advert come on showing the Ford Focus self parking.

It obviously has sensors which gauge the space and then an automatic control system which, in conjunction with the sensors, manoeuvres the car into the chosen space.

Now here is the big question, considering that all things mechanical/electrical/hardware/software related can chuck the teddies out of the cot every now and then, what happens from an insurers point of view should a collision occur?

Would Ford or any other manufacturer using such kit be immune from a claim?

As a car owner with this kit installed would your insurance company sting you for damage claims by third parties in the event of collision?

I am sure there are many more questions and queries - will be interesting when the system is put to the test on a legal playing field.

[FussyFez]

This was pretty much my first thought when it first appeared on top gear a few years ago, on a lexus iirc.

I personally would never use such a function, not through lack of trust, just because I wouldn't ever feel a need. I like manual cars, in pretty much every aspect.

[ging84]

i can guaranty you the mechanical/electrical/hardware/software related things involved will chuck their teddies out the cot an awful lot less than any human operator, well at least in the kind of way you are thinking, i suspect it will be reasonably common for one system or other to have a minor fault and the system refuse to engage completely, but for these system to do anything even remotely unpredictable, other than give up and bring the car to a stop, will be exceptionally rare.

You and therefore your 3rd party insurer is liable in all cases, you and/or your insurance company might have a claim against the manufacturer, i expect these instances will be extremely rare.

[Dracoro]

It's there to help you, not replace you. The driver can always override by pressing brake, adjust steering etc.

In other words, the driver always has ultimate control and should assume so. No real difference to cruise control, the driver can always brake/turn it off if it is about to hit something.

[kambites]

It is the driver's responsibility to be in control of the car.

I think the government is considering how to change the law to cope with fully automated cars but I've no idea what the outcome will be.

[PositronicRay]

You still have to operate the throttle and brake.

[fangio]

PositronicRay said:

You still have to operate the throttle and brake.

Do you? I thought they 'self-parked' which would mean all controls. Otherwise, it's not self-parking, it's
parking assist?

[PositronicRay]

fangio said:

PositronicRay said:

You still have to operate the throttle and brake.

Do you? I thought they 'self-parked' which would mean all controls. Otherwise, it's not self-parking, it's
parking assist?

All the self parking VAG cars work as below in both auto and manual transmissions.
It'll come just not here yet.


Self-parking cars currently on the market are not completely autonomous, but they do make parallel parking much easier. The driver still regulates the speed of the vehicle by pressing and releasing the brake pedal (the car's idle speed is enough to move it into the parking space without pressing the gas pedal). Once the process begins, the on-board computer system take over the steering wheel.

Edited by PositronicRay on Sunday 16th November 12:46

[zeduffman]

I bet there are a trillion nanny state warning notices and bongs of various volumes when you engage an auto park feature.

Or when you go to look it up in the manual and find one sentence that describes how to use it, in the middle of three pages of safety advisories and yellow triangles with exclamation marks on.

That's how the manufacturer gets away with it if there's an accident.

[PositronicRay]

Just found this. Looks fun, like an automated version of those thingies you use to park your caravan.

"Volkswagen has recently created a fully automated system that doesn’t need the driver to be in the car. Called Park Assist Vision (PAV), it could be the perfect solution for narrow garages.

Sensors will stop the car automatically, but to avoid tricky insurance or personal liability issues, the driver can still brake via a button on a remote key fob"

Not sure it's available to buy yet.

[PositronicRay]

zeduffman said:

I bet there are a trillion nanny state warning notices and bongs of various volumes when you engage an auto park feature.

Or when you go to look it up in the manual and find one sentence that describes how to use it, in the middle of three pages of safety advisories and yellow triangles with exclamation marks on.

That's how the manufacturer gets away with it if there's an accident.

I once tried a Lexus with an early version of parking cameras and a touch screen intended for the USA. When you engaged reverse it bonged and a message appeared on the screen "you more liable of collision operating in this mode" with an "agree" button to press.

[rehab71]

fangio said:

PositronicRay said:

You still have to operate the throttle and brake.

Do you? I thought they 'self-parked' which would mean all controls. Otherwise, it's not self-parking, it's
parking assist?

Yes you do, it does the streering you just control the speed.

Source: I sell Fords

[anonymous-user]

We have a couple of cars with this in work, and I must admit I was very impressed by the parallel parking ability but less so with it's supermarket style reversing. I guess for the latter it uses the cars either size to gauge what's "straight" and as most people are totally st and useless at parking it can't work miracles. If nothing else it's useful to tell you if it is possible for a car to fit in a really tight space when you might not be sure. The VAG system in particular is more than happy to go into really quite tight spaces in my experience.

[anonymous-user]

I find it amusing that we now sell cars with a feature than means people with even less spacial awareness can now operate them..................

[toerag]

The Mrs Grand picasso parks its self, I was terrified the first time just watching the steering wheel spinning away of its own accord while I sat clutching at the bolsters.

[The Vambo]

Max_Torque said:

I find it amusing that we now sell cars with a feature than means people with even less spacial awareness can now operate them..................

I find it amusing that we now sell cars with a feature than means people who...

Cant double de-clutch.
Aren't strong enough for manual steering.
Cant cadence brake.
Are too lazy to de-ice their own windows.
Can't read a map and drive simultaneously.
Whine about a broken arm from a starting handle.
Constantly st themselves because of the castor oil engine lubrication.
Et fking cetera.

Can all just get to work in the morning.

[anonymous-user]

The Vambo said:

Max_Torque said:

I find it amusing that we now sell cars with a feature than means people with even less spacial awareness can now operate them..................

I find it amusing that we now sell cars with a feature than means people who...

Cant double de-clutch.
Aren't strong enough for manual steering.
Cant cadence brake.
Are too lazy to de-ice their own windows.
Can't read a map and drive simultaneously.
Whine about a broken arm from a starting handle.
Constantly st themselves because of the castor oil engine lubrication.
Et fking cetera.

Can all just get to work in the morning.

#


;-) Very good! ;-)


My point was really, that we seem to accept convenience devices in our cars, even though it means people who are not really "made out" for driving can now drive. Whilst i couldn't careless if you can't parallel park, i suspect the correlation between parking skills and being both fully in control of their vehicle and proper "road craft" is actually quite high. But hey, it's fine, it's not like those people are whooshing past us, less than 12" away at a closing speed of >100mph on a dark, wet, country road now is it. Oh, wait............. ;-)

[The Vambo]

Max_Torque said:

;-) Very good! ;-)


My point was really, that we seem to accept convenience devices in our cars, even though it means people who are not really "made out" for driving can now drive. Whilst i couldn't careless if you can't parallel park, i suspect the correlation between parking skills and being both fully in control of their vehicle and proper "road craft" is actually quite high. But hey, it's fine, it's not like those people are whooshing past us, less than 12" away at a closing speed of >100mph on a dark, wet, country road now is it. Oh, wait............. ;-)

I know what you meant, you just set it up so well

Realistically though, I would rather the machine was easier to operate so that my Doctor/Dentist/Thai hooker who are bad drivers can still get to work and do the things for me that I am bad at.

[fangio]

rehab71 said:

Yes you do, it does the streering you just control the speed.

Source: I sell Fords

So parking assist, then?

[Swanny87]

If their QA testing is anything like the testing we had to go through at my last job for just changing a few words on a webpage, I wouldn't worry about it going haywire. Having said that even after all the testing under the sun things can still go wrong... *cough* Toyota Prius *cough*