RE: Motorsport On Monday: Rally GB special
Monday 17th November 2014
Can you be a petrolhead without liking motorsport? I reckon so – I love cars, always have done. I grab any opportunity to drive something new, especially if it’s something a little more PH-worthy, but here’s where I put my head in the stocks: motorsport, however, hasn’t thus far lit the fire within.
Hyundai believes in WRC as a marketing toolI think it comes down to finding arguably the most talked about form of motorsport, F1, so incredibly dull. I’ve tried to watch it. The races are tedious and it only gets interesting when it goes wrong, but I find spending a Sunday afternoon staring at a TV screen hoping there’s a crash is a little bit morbid. Rallying, on the other hand, has always intrigued me. I’ve never closely followed the World Rally Championship, but as a 90s kid I wasted many hours perfecting my slides in an Impreza on Colin McRae Rally.
And so does VW, with considerable successFor some manufacturers it’s also a big deal. Hyundai put me up over the weekend so I could follow the progress of its i20 WRCs, and along with the big three (VW, Citroen and Ford – Toyota expected to return in 2017), motorsport is a killer marketing tool.
Sunshine and glamour not part of Rally GBIt won’t just be him who suddenly became aware of Hyundai last weekend, either. And even more will when the N sub-brand comes online, meaning the rally programme will make a touch more sense. Hyundai’s still keeping quiet about the likelihood of a hot i20 in the future, but watch this space.
This kind of action makes up for it thoughWhy aren’t there more folk out on Welsh hillsides, up close to the action, then? Even in the depths of Wales they’re all reachable by road. It all comes down to the WRC’s failing in recent years and a lack of promotion. Organisers told me of big plans to attract more spectators, including deals on train fares from central London – Chester is, after all, just two hours away from the capital by train, and what a brilliant weekend away Rally GB makes.
Meeke one of two UK hopefuls in eventMeanwhile, back in Wales
As the sun set on Dyfnant, the likes of local lad Elfyn Evans and Kris Meeke passing sideways just metres away (six, if any marshals are reading), blinding spectators with their lights and showing off their glowing brake discs, it’s very easy to make claims for the WRC being the coolest sporting event in the world.
Motorsport On Monday: Rally GB special
Motorsport On Monday guest columnist Andrew ... doesn't get motorsport; off to the Welsh forests with him!
Hyundai believes in WRC as a marketing tool
So, when the World Rally Championship’s Rally GB round moved to my old stomping ground last year, I was determined to give it a chance. Last weekend I had my views on motorsport flipped in a muddy forest in deepest damp Wales.
Rally GB’s kind of a big deal
For the local area, Rally GB is huge. It pumps around £10 million into the economy, and it’s refreshing to find that locals largely approve of rally cars tearing through their forests at three-figure speeds.
And so does VW, with considerable success
While F1 might be good for the brand image of manufacturers like Ferrari – well, dubious going by this year’s performance – how much does it actually help sales? Does Mercedes-Benz sell many C-Classes off the back of Lewis Hamilton and the W05 Hybrid? In comparison, how many young spectators at this weekend’s Rally GB will now be tempted by an i20, Fiesta or Polo, especially a hot one with a link to what Neuville, Meeke or Ogier drive? So why won’t more manufacturers put a team in for this gruelling motorsport?
Hyundai’s presence as main sponsor last weekend was clear. Its cars were everywhere, providing hundreds of support vehicles. As one spectator commented walking past our Santa Fe, “They look great covered in mud, don’t they? I should’ve considered one when I got my Freelander…”
Sunshine and glamour not part of Rally GB
Muddy good fun
As guests of Hyundai, we didn’t have to do a lot in the way of organisation. Racing the lead cars between stages in a chopper is a wonderful way of experiencing the rally, but it’s arguably not the best way. To really get a feel for it as a newbie, you need to go stage-side – and herein lies the problem.
Chatting to a friend and casual WRC fan that lives nearby, he tells me that knowing where to go to see the rally is really confusing. There’s a real appetite for it – a visit to the service park at Deeside shows that and it’s packed with spectators.
This kind of action makes up for it though
Even as a newbie rally spectator it’s obvious to me that the WRC would gain a lot of traction in the UK with some decent TV coverage. If only a mainstream channel would give it some well-deserved airtime it could surely spark the fire in the McRae Rally PlayStation generation.
If that happens, surely more manufacturers would stop fooling around on race tracks, and invest some money into this much more accessible motorsport.
Meeke one of two UK hopefuls in event
As the sun set on Dyfnant, the likes of local lad Elfyn Evans and Kris Meeke passing sideways just metres away (six, if any marshals are reading), blinding spectators with their lights and showing off their glowing brake discs, it’s very easy to make claims for the WRC being the coolest sporting event in the world.
With four manufacturers in the top four (VW with Ogier taking his eighth win of the season, Hirvonen finding some form in second, Ostberg in the Citroen in third and Hyundai just narrowly missing out on a podium with Neuville in fourth), there’s some evidence, showing exactly how diverse the series can be.
The sound of the heavily tweaked 1.6-litre turbocharged engines bouncing off the valley walls, mud and stones flying towards spectators , just adds to the excitement. It’s just not the same watching from your living room, but I can’t help thinking a highlights package on a ‘proper’ TV channel would help its popularity.
I’ve certainly been converted from a casual observer to a full-on fan, and I won’t be missing it next year.
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Additional action photography: LAT Photo
Discussion
I always find coverage of WRC on tv a bit disjointed and confusing because stages are long and fairly similar looking it's hard to follow where the cars are. Especially in a highlight programme where you only get footage of a couple of corners for each car. In person it's a great experience being able to get so close to the action.
Circuit based racing formats are much more suited to tv, it's a shame that Rally cross isn't a more respected format as that would combine rally cars with recognisable circuits giving a format which would work with tv.
Also, no mention of Toyota winning the World Endurance Championship?
Circuit based racing formats are much more suited to tv, it's a shame that Rally cross isn't a more respected format as that would combine rally cars with recognisable circuits giving a format which would work with tv.
Also, no mention of Toyota winning the World Endurance Championship?
Was wondering if this would get any comment from Motorsport on Monday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30082212 Perhaps it arrived after you went to press.
"A man who drove a car on to the Brands Hatch circuit during a race has been jailed for eight months.
Jack Cottle was arrested after footage of a VW Polo being driven on to the track in June was posted on YouTube.
Cottle, 22, of East Sussex, who was driving his girlfriend's car, had admitted a public nuisance charge at Maidstone Crown Court."
"A man who drove a car on to the Brands Hatch circuit during a race has been jailed for eight months.
Jack Cottle was arrested after footage of a VW Polo being driven on to the track in June was posted on YouTube.
Cottle, 22, of East Sussex, who was driving his girlfriend's car, had admitted a public nuisance charge at Maidstone Crown Court."
threespires said:
Once was a time I'd be glued to the media when the 'RAC' was on.
Likewise. Fond memories of standing in the middle of Chatsworth and Sutton Park in Novembers 20-odd years ago too.
Not sure where it lost it's appeal for me. Someone's tweeted Andrew to tell him that this is better: http://www.rogeralbertclarkrally.org/
Does look more up my street. Been meaning to go to local rallys too. Somerset Stages for instance.
I'm not into F1 either.
Next year, try parking you car up in a dark and deserted Welsh forest car-park and then kipping in the back until 0300 or thereabouts. Nothing beats the surreal sight of waking up in a now packed car-park and walking up an access track thronged with like-minded enthusiasts, all of whom are likely to be highly knowledgeable about the sport. Many will have competed on rallies themselves and will keep you info'd on all the drama throughout the event. Like the article says, watching it on telly is good...watching it happen in front of your face is priceless.
Took my 2 daughters for their 1st WRC this weekend.
One loves her sleep - 10am plus but was up at 04:30 both days ready and bleary eye'd.
She'd been to the service area with STEM and met Hirvonen on the Thursday.
Other one i took Sat night and met Meeke. so 2 very happy girls.
They had tried out the Malcolm Wilson Rally at Grizedale and loved it - esp the RWD escorts. So although they were new to rally they soon knew the running order for the 2nd pass and could tell if a driver was out.
Didn't take long for them to spot a well taken corner, flat out driving, left foot braking and some not so well taken lines.
We had no idea how each driver was doing but it doesn't matter its as they said "we're feeling the cars". We moved around for each stage and usually ended up at jumps just feet away from cars doing 110mph plus. Their faces were WOW. Especially enjoyed Alwyn.
Was a fantastic weekend with so many great memories.
TV is good substitute but you can't beat the mud and stones flying around you.
One loves her sleep - 10am plus but was up at 04:30 both days ready and bleary eye'd.
She'd been to the service area with STEM and met Hirvonen on the Thursday.
Other one i took Sat night and met Meeke. so 2 very happy girls.
They had tried out the Malcolm Wilson Rally at Grizedale and loved it - esp the RWD escorts. So although they were new to rally they soon knew the running order for the 2nd pass and could tell if a driver was out.
Didn't take long for them to spot a well taken corner, flat out driving, left foot braking and some not so well taken lines.
We had no idea how each driver was doing but it doesn't matter its as they said "we're feeling the cars". We moved around for each stage and usually ended up at jumps just feet away from cars doing 110mph plus. Their faces were WOW. Especially enjoyed Alwyn.
Was a fantastic weekend with so many great memories.
TV is good substitute but you can't beat the mud and stones flying around you.
PistonBroker said:
threespires said:
Once was a time I'd be glued to the media when the 'RAC' was on.
Likewise. Fond memories of standing in the middle of Chatsworth and Sutton Park in Novembers 20-odd years ago too.
Not sure where it lost it's appeal for me. Someone's tweeted Andrew to tell him that this is better: http://www.rogeralbertclarkrally.org/
Does look more up my street. Been meaning to go to local rallys too. Somerset Stages for instance.
I'm not into F1 either.
You have identified the basic problem, the promoter who has the rights for TV coverage is useless and has done nothing to bring it to mainstream terrestrial TV. The "product" is great as anyone who has stood in that wet Welsh forest this weekend will confirm. Its still not back up there for us old timers who remember the sight and sound of rally cars through the middle of the night but it is still an experience not to be missed.
One problem these days is the limited or restricted access for spectators to many forest stages. The organisers prefer to herd them into controlled areas where they can also charge them for parking.
The Roger Albert Clark rally is much more like the real thing and runs right through the night so if you want the undiluted version that is the one to go and see.
One more thing you didn't mention is the smell. Its impossible to explain, but that smell of hot engines, hot brakes and hot tyres mixed with the smell of baked on mud is addictive - so be warned.
One problem these days is the limited or restricted access for spectators to many forest stages. The organisers prefer to herd them into controlled areas where they can also charge them for parking.
The Roger Albert Clark rally is much more like the real thing and runs right through the night so if you want the undiluted version that is the one to go and see.
One more thing you didn't mention is the smell. Its impossible to explain, but that smell of hot engines, hot brakes and hot tyres mixed with the smell of baked on mud is addictive - so be warned.
dursleyman said:
You have identified the basic problem, the promoter who has the rights for TV coverage is useless and has done nothing to bring it to mainstream terrestrial TV. The "product" is great as anyone who has stood in that wet Welsh forest this weekend will confirm. Its still not back up there for us old timers who remember the sight and sound of rally cars through the middle of the night but it is still an experience not to be missed.
One problem these days is the limited or restricted access for spectators to many forest stages. The organisers prefer to herd them into controlled areas where they can also charge them for parking.
The Roger Albert Clark rally is much more like the real thing and runs right through the night so if you want the undiluted version that is the one to go and see.
One more thing you didn't mention is the smell. Its impossible to explain, but that smell of hot engines, hot brakes and hot tyres mixed with the smell of baked on mud is addictive - so be warned.
Sums it up nicely!! One problem these days is the limited or restricted access for spectators to many forest stages. The organisers prefer to herd them into controlled areas where they can also charge them for parking.
The Roger Albert Clark rally is much more like the real thing and runs right through the night so if you want the undiluted version that is the one to go and see.
One more thing you didn't mention is the smell. Its impossible to explain, but that smell of hot engines, hot brakes and hot tyres mixed with the smell of baked on mud is addictive - so be warned.
There were many car parks full; so the appetite is there for the WRC. What puzzles me is that apart from dedicated rally websites/ forums, there wasn't much interest in the event. I went in a few motorsport forums, and a few comments. The mainstream media coverage hasn't been great either. I saw about 3-4 lines in today's Telegraph, while there was a big column on Lewis Hamilton. At least the Guardian have a report - and have enabled comments for it.
I still think the event needs to be tougher; more stages and more mileage - and cover a wider geographical area, as Jean Todt wants. All RedBull have to do is promote it; its not rocket science. No need for gimmicks, or 'shoot outs'. Just proper promotion.
Output Flange said:
Hello Motorsport on Monday. Quick question - were any FIA World Champions declared over the weekend? Perhaps, say, a major manufacturer winning a title?
Would hate to interrupt your full page coverage of the rallying, just thought it might be worth a mention, eh.
Why cant people let us have this one Motorsport Monday feature!? There have been 3 FIA World ChampionsWould hate to interrupt your full page coverage of the rallying, just thought it might be worth a mention, eh.
crowned over the last 3 months (Petter Solberg - World RallyCross, Sebastien Ogier WRC Champion & VW WRC Manufacturers Champion) in the MM feature following these events there wasnt a single feature about it!
Not even Petter making history as the only World Champion in 2 FIA sanctioned series'.
maybe, perhaps, this feature was written before the FIAWEC happened. Or here's a crazy thought! maybe they are writing a full page report on that all by itself!? crazy ehh!
Ok, that's nearly a whole day this article has been up and mine is only the thirteenth post!
Like the previous two PH articles concentrating on the Wales Rally GB this past fortnight we're not getting much feedback, are we guys...
Almost three times the number of comments are to be found on today's PH Carpool BMW E30 M3 topic which, yes, is very interesting but hardly 'new' or 'news'.
No, I'm afraid Britain's round of the WRC has a long way to go before it gets back on the map (oh, ha ha, what irony) or maybe the spectators just haven't got back from Wales yet?
Like the previous two PH articles concentrating on the Wales Rally GB this past fortnight we're not getting much feedback, are we guys...
Almost three times the number of comments are to be found on today's PH Carpool BMW E30 M3 topic which, yes, is very interesting but hardly 'new' or 'news'.
No, I'm afraid Britain's round of the WRC has a long way to go before it gets back on the map (oh, ha ha, what irony) or maybe the spectators just haven't got back from Wales yet?
From the comfort of my sofa this years Rally GB looked like a cracking event. I cant help but think the fact its stuck in Wales is part of the problem, its just too easy for the mainstream to ignore.
I doubt the Welsh tourist board (or which ever Welsh body supports it) would be too happy about my thoughts but IMO it would get more attention if it were one day in England (Kielder forest please!) and maybe 2 days in Wales? Probably wishful thinking!
I doubt the Welsh tourist board (or which ever Welsh body supports it) would be too happy about my thoughts but IMO it would get more attention if it were one day in England (Kielder forest please!) and maybe 2 days in Wales? Probably wishful thinking!
WRC is like Le Mans to the mainstream media - invisible. 250k people at Le Mans, 50k+ of them from the UK - not a squeak on the news.
Probably 100k people following the rally in person over the weekend? Service was rammed, 6-7 deep round the main cars. Stages were full. I arrived in stage at 3am on Saturday and as posted above found plenty of people already there with fires and beers on the go, many of them from all over Europe and the world. As many different accents in the crowd as Le Mans.
But it's just not on the radar of the average media luvvie, so without massive promotion it remains invisible to most. I'd say the event itself was in rude health with full entries and sold-out venues. Couldn't really fit any more in. It's just it needs wider media coverage to keep the manufacturers happy, or it could all collapse again.
Probably 100k people following the rally in person over the weekend? Service was rammed, 6-7 deep round the main cars. Stages were full. I arrived in stage at 3am on Saturday and as posted above found plenty of people already there with fires and beers on the go, many of them from all over Europe and the world. As many different accents in the crowd as Le Mans.
But it's just not on the radar of the average media luvvie, so without massive promotion it remains invisible to most. I'd say the event itself was in rude health with full entries and sold-out venues. Couldn't really fit any more in. It's just it needs wider media coverage to keep the manufacturers happy, or it could all collapse again.
interloper said:
From the comfort of my sofa this years Rally GB looked like a cracking event. I cant help but think the fact its stuck in Wales is part of the problem, its just too easy for the mainstream to ignore.
I doubt the Welsh tourist board (or which ever Welsh body supports it) would be too happy about my thoughts but IMO it would get more attention if it were one day in England (Kielder forest please!) and maybe 2 days in Wales? Probably wishful thinking!
I think there maybe some truth in this. Look at the Tour de France starting in Yorkshire - Welcome to Yorkshire were clever enough to realise having a day ending in London would seal the deal. RallyGB doesn't visit one of our major towns or cities; theres a greater chance that the mainstream would bother themselves. Its just how the media in this country work; at the moment I think they view it as a Welsh event; rather than the UK round of the WRC. If I was to be critical of the organisers, they/ the event does cone across as a little too parochial at times.I doubt the Welsh tourist board (or which ever Welsh body supports it) would be too happy about my thoughts but IMO it would get more attention if it were one day in England (Kielder forest please!) and maybe 2 days in Wales? Probably wishful thinking!
Sooner or later a new sponsor will be needed; maybe then a few more different English stages could be used.
the distance format is nothing to do with the event and organisers, the rules by the FIA state that the service park must be a fixed location and that stages are only permitted a set mileage away from that fixed location. So if the rally was to move elsewhere, it'd have to be somewhere that can provide the required stage mileage for the rally to run to the set number of minimum distance.
Having the rally based in London would be no good, unless roads were closed and the rally became a tarmac/mixed surface event.
Until this rule is revised we're never going to get the days of the good old RAC back. so it's based in Wales as the Welsh Assembly Government are willing to shovel wads of cash into the event.
As much as the drive up north kills me now with the long day of timing/marshalling I am glad to see the stages packed again, there were far more families and young kids out on the event than I've seen over the last few years.
I do think that the rally is somewhat alienating the southern Wales & English fans by only coming down to mid Wales. Epynt has some epic stages that could still be exploited and bump up the spectator numbers again!
from my house, 20 miles north of Cardiff, to Maesnant was still a 2hr drive and Maesnant/Sweet Lamb was considered the 'southern leg' of this years event!
Having the rally based in London would be no good, unless roads were closed and the rally became a tarmac/mixed surface event.
Until this rule is revised we're never going to get the days of the good old RAC back. so it's based in Wales as the Welsh Assembly Government are willing to shovel wads of cash into the event.
As much as the drive up north kills me now with the long day of timing/marshalling I am glad to see the stages packed again, there were far more families and young kids out on the event than I've seen over the last few years.
I do think that the rally is somewhat alienating the southern Wales & English fans by only coming down to mid Wales. Epynt has some epic stages that could still be exploited and bump up the spectator numbers again!
from my house, 20 miles north of Cardiff, to Maesnant was still a 2hr drive and Maesnant/Sweet Lamb was considered the 'southern leg' of this years event!
This was probably my Seventh or eighth Rally GB. I have fond memories of watching McRae and Sainz blasting around Chatsworth etc. I had a great time at Alwen on Sunday but it I can't help think it's just not the same anymore. It was my Girlfriends first time and even though she enjoyed it she did say "they're all bloody Fiesta's" and she wasn't far wrong. Watching a Fiesta or Polo does not hold the same magic to me as watching an Impreza or Evo. Dropping from Hatches and Saloons to shopping trollies was a big shame IMO.
And then there's the Price. Reducing the price of the on the day Forrest passes would surely increase spectator numbers. I don't believe £25 (£35 on Saturday) PP is particularly good VFM.
The TV coverage is shocking. They do have highlights on S4C but I can't speak Welsh.
At least it was a Little closer to home this year being in North Wales. A venture over the border next please, Derbyshire should be possible?
On the countries largest Motoring forum we have had what, three threads on Rally GB?
Such a shame. Hopefully someone can drum up some more enthusiasm in future years...
And then there's the Price. Reducing the price of the on the day Forrest passes would surely increase spectator numbers. I don't believe £25 (£35 on Saturday) PP is particularly good VFM.
The TV coverage is shocking. They do have highlights on S4C but I can't speak Welsh.
At least it was a Little closer to home this year being in North Wales. A venture over the border next please, Derbyshire should be possible?
On the countries largest Motoring forum we have had what, three threads on Rally GB?
Such a shame. Hopefully someone can drum up some more enthusiasm in future years...
RyanTank said:
the distance format is nothing to do with the event and organisers, the rules by the FIA state that the service park must be a fixed location and that stages are only permitted a set mileage away from that fixed location. So if the rally was to move elsewhere, it'd have to be somewhere that can provide the required stage mileage for the rally to run to the set number of minimum distance.
Having the rally based in London would be no good, unless roads were closed and the rally became a tarmac/mixed surface event.
Until this rule is revised we're never going to get the days of the good old RAC back. so it's based in Wales as the Welsh Assembly Government are willing to shovel wads of cash into the event.
As much as the drive up north kills me now with the long day of timing/marshalling I am glad to see the stages packed again, there were far more families and young kids out on the event than I've seen over the last few years.
I do think that the rally is somewhat alienating the southern Wales & English fans by only coming down to mid Wales. Epynt has some epic stages that could still be exploited and bump up the spectator numbers again!
from my house, 20 miles north of Cardiff, to Maesnant was still a 2hr drive and Maesnant/Sweet Lamb was considered the 'southern leg' of this years event!
I have to say that since moving up to North Wales, the rally has been noticeably busier, you couldn't get near some of the stages due to the amount of people who turned up...Having the rally based in London would be no good, unless roads were closed and the rally became a tarmac/mixed surface event.
Until this rule is revised we're never going to get the days of the good old RAC back. so it's based in Wales as the Welsh Assembly Government are willing to shovel wads of cash into the event.
As much as the drive up north kills me now with the long day of timing/marshalling I am glad to see the stages packed again, there were far more families and young kids out on the event than I've seen over the last few years.
I do think that the rally is somewhat alienating the southern Wales & English fans by only coming down to mid Wales. Epynt has some epic stages that could still be exploited and bump up the spectator numbers again!
from my house, 20 miles north of Cardiff, to Maesnant was still a 2hr drive and Maesnant/Sweet Lamb was considered the 'southern leg' of this years event!
When it was in South Wales, it was nowhere near as busy!
I feel that all the people who are saying that the event wasn't a success, didn't attend.
lankyarcher said:
I feel that all the people who are saying that the event wasn't a success, didn't attend.
completely agree there!The stages down south were a lot more accessible I found, but they had no classic status! the Margam stage possibly the most known out of the them.
There are some epic stages that can be used, like the Epynt forests (brechfa,Epynt,Halfway etc etc), or a return to the Rhondda valleys stages such as StGwynno.
One of the biggest issues was the complete lack of any atmosphere with it down the bay, or any marketing for that matter! had they put as much marketing into it then I don't think we'd have ad such a bad turn out.
But the main sticking point for most is the cost of a pass. a mate went to Germany and Spain this year following the wrc. and stage entry cost a total of £0!! His whole cost for going to Spain was £200 and admits that most of that was food an beer costs!!
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