So which is it, the Americans or the Europeans?

[Ozzie Osmond]

I have become quite convinced that among the many moaners on PH, 50% blame "the Americans" for just about anything and 50% blame "the EU" for just about everything. Automatic gearboxes, electric steering, drive by wire throttle, you name it. And all this after most of the British industry has gone down the tubes, to be replaced by - wait for it wait for it - car building in UK owned mainly by overseas.

So which is it?

[RobinBanks]

What an odd question. I don't think that either is at fault for the fact that cars are better than ever...

[Troubleatmill]

Plenty of UK, EU and US cars in the top 20.

What was the problem again?

1. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 182 0 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55.00 179 '05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Porsche 918 Spyder (Weissach-Package) 6:57.00 178 '13 887 / 1634 Porsche tester
4. Nissan GT-R Nismo 7:08.68 173 '15 599 / 1720 Michael Krumm
5. McLaren F1 7:11.00 172 '93 635 / 1140 Mika Hakkinen
6. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:11.57 172 '07 700 / 1200 Florian Gruber
7. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13 172 '08 608 / 1536 Dominik Farnbacher
8. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 171 '12 570 / 1509 Akira Iida
9. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 171 '05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
10. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 7:18.00 169 '10 620 / 1370 Timo Kluck
11. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19.00 169 '03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
12. Nissan GT-R 7:19.10 169 '12 550 / 1736 Toshio Suzuki
13. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:19.63 169 '08 647 / 1530 Jim Mero
14. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 7:22.68 168 '11 512 / 1394 Jim Mero
15. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24.00 167 '07 700 / 1200
16. Nissan GT-R 7:24.22 167 '11 530 / 1736 Toshio Suzuki
17. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 167 '04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
18. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 167 '05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
19. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 7:25.00 167 '11 700 / 1575 Horst von Saurma
20. KTM X-Bow R 7:25.00 167 '11 304 / 855 Christopher Haase

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

[Ozzie Osmond]

RobinBanks said:

I don't think that either is at fault for the fact that cars are better than ever...

Totally agree.

The question is why so many vociferous posters seem to be looking for someone to blame - usually because the seem to still want something built in the 1980s.

[RobinBanks]

Ozzie Osmond said:

RobinBanks said:

I don't think that either is at fault for the fact that cars are better than ever...

Totally agree.

The question is why so many vociferous posters seem to be looking for someone to blame - usually because the seem to still want something built in the 1980s.

Right, I understand you.

Rose-tinted specs etc.

[Robert Elise]

James May would blame the ring.... (troublet'mill)
the repeated debate on PH is about what is a good car? is it pure numbers, one that goes fast, or one that is involving/requiring skill/fun/??
Normally, the best meal for least effort i can get is in a (good) restaurant. Yet some people persist in spending many hours and much money, trying to show they can do as good a job from their own kitchen. Some actually succeed, and many more take great satisfaction in the process of trying.
There's a metaphor in there somewhere for Cantana to scan.

[BritishRacinGrin]

I don't blame the car builders or the homologators (well, apart from the emmissions regulations which have been present in the US and the EU for decades).

I blame the car buyers. They don't generally seem to know what they want but when the car makers release a new model which has more gimmicky gadgets, bigger this and more that they seize upon it as if it's what they've needed all along. The emphasis on the integrity and quality of the engineering has been lost in favour of gadgets and bling to the point that people are more likely to know about the intricacies of the various trim levels than what the displacement of the engine is, what fuel it's running on or which wheels are driven.

[ging84]

yes all these foreigners are to blame
without them we would still be banging out the same rusty st we did in the 70s and 80s
It is mostly the fault of Tata, Honda, BMW, Toyota and Nissan, all coming over here, giving people jobs, who do they think they are?

[cj2013]

To be fair, there's an active thread on the first page right now tat complains about nearly every safety system on modern cars and blames different countries/people for them, so I don't think the OPs question is as daft as has been suggested.

(especially when it's potentially the same people)

[tomjol]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Totally agree.

The question is why so many vociferous posters seem to be looking for someone to blame - usually because the seem to still want something built in the 1980s.

Because small-minded people seek to blame "the other" for all their ills?

[skyrover]

Best and the worst from America IMO.

Still putting large displacement N/A V8's into car's with manual gearbox's and huge aftermarket support for customizing. Massive modifying scene/culture.

On the other hand they are giving us the autonomous car.