Cars don't kill, diesel does
Discussion
OK a daft title, but today's announcement that the UK government must take action to control oil burners' fumes in UK cities is surely good news for many PHers?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3011...
For some reason I find I seem to loath and detest diesel cars (although in the 90s I owned two of them and they were actually very nice to drive!). It might be because they are quicker to 30 mph than either my Clio or Impreza!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3011...
For some reason I find I seem to loath and detest diesel cars (although in the 90s I owned two of them and they were actually very nice to drive!). It might be because they are quicker to 30 mph than either my Clio or Impreza!
Hopefully not in my lifetime as i love diesels and the vile amount of torque they produce.my 330 does sound like a tractor on a cold morning though, but only for 10 mins while it pushes out some clearly toxic diesel fumes.
i do my bit for the environment in other ways, like recycling card board and dead cats.
i do my bit for the environment in other ways, like recycling card board and dead cats.
Forget any personal biases against diesel - the "solutions" to the "problem" will negatively impact petrol vehicles just as much. Road charging, Low Emission zones, and financially coercing people to use public transport instead, are just three obvious examples.
This is A Bad Thing whether you drive petrol, diesel or even an EV.
This is A Bad Thing whether you drive petrol, diesel or even an EV.
Been a lot of talk of this recently. They government convinced everyone to get diesels and are now paying the price. And now that petrol's are often very good on fuel there is even less incentive to get a tractor. Diesels suck in towns cities anyway, their territory is the motorway.
Rumour is that new diesel cars from a certain date will be taxed higher. At least its less of a slap to current derv owners.
Rumour is that new diesel cars from a certain date will be taxed higher. At least its less of a slap to current derv owners.
Jonny_ said:
Forget any personal biases against diesel - the "solutions" to the "problem" will negatively impact petrol vehicles just as much. Road charging, Low Emission zones, and financially coercing people to use public transport instead, are just three obvious examples.
This is A Bad Thing whether you drive petrol, diesel or even an EV.
Fair point.This is A Bad Thing whether you drive petrol, diesel or even an EV.
The stupidest part of all of this is that reducing car emissions is a hugely ineffectual and expensive way to reduce overall pollution.
If the EU would just chill out about car emissions, we would all have far more money to be taxed out of us for more effective measures (e.g. subsidising investments in "green" energy for industry and homes).
If the EU would just chill out about car emissions, we would all have far more money to be taxed out of us for more effective measures (e.g. subsidising investments in "green" energy for industry and homes).
The ridiculous thing about this is that we've known for years that this is a problem yet still they blindly persisted with a vehicle taxation system which chased Co2 emissions and greatly encouraged people to buy diesel cars.
Now we have the ludicrous situation where in some market segments the used buy has almost zero choice but to buy a diesel - even if they don't want one - and might now face restrictions on use when the popularity of diesel cars is entirely a product of government policy through both fuel costs through duty and CO2 based company car tax and VED.
I have a diesel - but only because nobody buys petrol versions of my car new and I couldnt afford to order a brand new one.
Now we have the ludicrous situation where in some market segments the used buy has almost zero choice but to buy a diesel - even if they don't want one - and might now face restrictions on use when the popularity of diesel cars is entirely a product of government policy through both fuel costs through duty and CO2 based company car tax and VED.
I have a diesel - but only because nobody buys petrol versions of my car new and I couldnt afford to order a brand new one.
Can anyone help me with this one:
All this stuff seems to coming from Europe, in this case in the European Court of Justice, which is fine, i don't have a problem with this.
Diesel cars have been more popular in Europe for far longer than in the UK. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, pretty much all over Europe and always has been. If diesel is causing such problems in the UK why isn't it doing so in Europe? How come the countries that make more use if diesel and charge less for diesel than petrol seem to be having less of a problem with air quality than we do?
Back in the summer I made a trip around Belgium, Holland Germany and Northern France which served to confirm something I've known for decades, which that on Sundays the shops are shut and hgvs are not allowed to move. Driving from Germany to France through bits of Holland and Belgium, we saw that at every motorway services no matter which country, there were lines and lines of hgvs parked up. This is a sight *never* seen in the uk.
We also travelled a good few miles off m'way, and we noticed that not only were the shopping malls shut but so were the large garden centres. Passing these establishments we noticed that the large car parks would be empty and so were the surrounding roads, which again, is a sight you'll never see in Britain, not on any day of the week or public holiday.
I don't know what is causing the uk to have worse air pollution than the rest of Europe but I am trying to make some sense of it, and am struggling.
All this stuff seems to coming from Europe, in this case in the European Court of Justice, which is fine, i don't have a problem with this.
Diesel cars have been more popular in Europe for far longer than in the UK. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, pretty much all over Europe and always has been. If diesel is causing such problems in the UK why isn't it doing so in Europe? How come the countries that make more use if diesel and charge less for diesel than petrol seem to be having less of a problem with air quality than we do?
Back in the summer I made a trip around Belgium, Holland Germany and Northern France which served to confirm something I've known for decades, which that on Sundays the shops are shut and hgvs are not allowed to move. Driving from Germany to France through bits of Holland and Belgium, we saw that at every motorway services no matter which country, there were lines and lines of hgvs parked up. This is a sight *never* seen in the uk.
We also travelled a good few miles off m'way, and we noticed that not only were the shopping malls shut but so were the large garden centres. Passing these establishments we noticed that the large car parks would be empty and so were the surrounding roads, which again, is a sight you'll never see in Britain, not on any day of the week or public holiday.
I don't know what is causing the uk to have worse air pollution than the rest of Europe but I am trying to make some sense of it, and am struggling.
http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/interactive/no...
The thing you have to remember is how much more densely populated the UK is compared to, say, France. Especially the South East.
The thing you have to remember is how much more densely populated the UK is compared to, say, France. Especially the South East.
heebeegeetee said:
Can anyone help me with this one:
All this stuff seems to coming from Europe, in this case in the European Court of Justice, which is fine, i don't have a problem with this.
Diesel cars have been more popular in Europe for far longer than in the UK. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, pretty much all over Europe and always has been. If diesel is causing such problems in the UK why isn't it doing so in Europe? How come the countries that make more use if diesel and charge less for diesel than petrol seem to be having less of a problem with air quality than we do?
Back in the summer I made a trip around Belgium, Holland Germany and Northern France which served to confirm something I've known for decades, which that on Sundays the shops are shut and hgvs are not allowed to move. Driving from Germany to France through bits of Holland and Belgium, we saw that at every motorway services no matter which country, there were lines and lines of hgvs parked up. This is a sight *never* seen in the uk.
We also travelled a good few miles off m'way, and we noticed that not only were the shopping malls shut but so were the large garden centres. Passing these establishments we noticed that the large car parks would be empty and so were the surrounding roads, which again, is a sight you'll never see in Britain, not on any day of the week or public holiday.
I don't know what is causing the uk to have worse air pollution than the rest of Europe but I am trying to make some sense of it, and am struggling.
Two words.All this stuff seems to coming from Europe, in this case in the European Court of Justice, which is fine, i don't have a problem with this.
Diesel cars have been more popular in Europe for far longer than in the UK. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, pretty much all over Europe and always has been. If diesel is causing such problems in the UK why isn't it doing so in Europe? How come the countries that make more use if diesel and charge less for diesel than petrol seem to be having less of a problem with air quality than we do?
Back in the summer I made a trip around Belgium, Holland Germany and Northern France which served to confirm something I've known for decades, which that on Sundays the shops are shut and hgvs are not allowed to move. Driving from Germany to France through bits of Holland and Belgium, we saw that at every motorway services no matter which country, there were lines and lines of hgvs parked up. This is a sight *never* seen in the uk.
We also travelled a good few miles off m'way, and we noticed that not only were the shopping malls shut but so were the large garden centres. Passing these establishments we noticed that the large car parks would be empty and so were the surrounding roads, which again, is a sight you'll never see in Britain, not on any day of the week or public holiday.
I don't know what is causing the uk to have worse air pollution than the rest of Europe but I am trying to make some sense of it, and am struggling.
Population. Density.
otolith said:
http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/interactive/no...
The thing you have to remember is how much more densely populated the UK is compared to, say, France. Especially the South East.
Interesting. I wonder if crap traffic flow is as much to blame. Look at Exeter on the map - orange. Look at Plymouth - green. Exeter is a smaller city but it's notorious for horrendous traffic issues. At peak times it can take 30-45 minutes to get from the city centre to the M5, a distance of no more than about 3 miles.The thing you have to remember is how much more densely populated the UK is compared to, say, France. Especially the South East.
Another perfect example - Bath is red. Bristol is yellow. Bristol is considerably larger and has far more cars but Bath is always very congested.
Perhaps we should sort the traffic flow out by binning excessive bus lanes, traffic calming measures, etc etc?
exiged said:
Hopefully not in my lifetime as i love diesels and the vile amount of torque they produce.my 330 does sound like a tractor on a cold morning though, but only for 10 mins while it pushes out some clearly toxic diesel fumes.
i do my bit for the environment in other ways, like recycling card board and dead cats.
But the torque is largely ruled out by something called a gearbox because diesels don't rev as high. The "low down torque" typically associated with diesels is more down to the fact it's turbocharged. i do my bit for the environment in other ways, like recycling card board and dead cats.
A new 330d makes 400lb ft of torque from 2k rpm. Many of the diesels produce peak torque a little lower... But as a percentage of max rpm it certainly isn't any lower than what the turbocharged petrols manage. When you consider the gear ratios you'll find its the car which makes more power is faster.
Have a quick think:
How many of these:
do you think you need to put out the same mass of NOx / Soot as one of these:
Or one of these:
Or one of these:
Answers on a post card please......
(hint, look up EU6 passenger car diesel limits, and compare them to those currently in force for HGV's and other "exempt" vehicles)
How many of these:
do you think you need to put out the same mass of NOx / Soot as one of these:
Or one of these:
Or one of these:
Answers on a post card please......
(hint, look up EU6 passenger car diesel limits, and compare them to those currently in force for HGV's and other "exempt" vehicles)
SturdyHSV said:
heebeegeetee said:
Can anyone help me with this one:
All this stuff seems to coming from Europe, in this case in the European Court of Justice, which is fine, i don't have a problem with this.
Diesel cars have been more popular in Europe for far longer than in the UK. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, pretty much all over Europe and always has been. If diesel is causing such problems in the UK why isn't it doing so in Europe? How come the countries that make more use if diesel and charge less for diesel than petrol seem to be having less of a problem with air quality than we do?
Back in the summer I made a trip around Belgium, Holland Germany and Northern France which served to confirm something I've known for decades, which that on Sundays the shops are shut and hgvs are not allowed to move. Driving from Germany to France through bits of Holland and Belgium, we saw that at every motorway services no matter which country, there were lines and lines of hgvs parked up. This is a sight *never* seen in the uk.
We also travelled a good few miles off m'way, and we noticed that not only were the shopping malls shut but so were the large garden centres. Passing these establishments we noticed that the large car parks would be empty and so were the surrounding roads, which again, is a sight you'll never see in Britain, not on any day of the week or public holiday.
I don't know what is causing the uk to have worse air pollution than the rest of Europe but I am trying to make some sense of it, and am struggling.
Two words.All this stuff seems to coming from Europe, in this case in the European Court of Justice, which is fine, i don't have a problem with this.
Diesel cars have been more popular in Europe for far longer than in the UK. In Europe diesel is cheaper than petrol, pretty much all over Europe and always has been. If diesel is causing such problems in the UK why isn't it doing so in Europe? How come the countries that make more use if diesel and charge less for diesel than petrol seem to be having less of a problem with air quality than we do?
Back in the summer I made a trip around Belgium, Holland Germany and Northern France which served to confirm something I've known for decades, which that on Sundays the shops are shut and hgvs are not allowed to move. Driving from Germany to France through bits of Holland and Belgium, we saw that at every motorway services no matter which country, there were lines and lines of hgvs parked up. This is a sight *never* seen in the uk.
We also travelled a good few miles off m'way, and we noticed that not only were the shopping malls shut but so were the large garden centres. Passing these establishments we noticed that the large car parks would be empty and so were the surrounding roads, which again, is a sight you'll never see in Britain, not on any day of the week or public holiday.
I don't know what is causing the uk to have worse air pollution than the rest of Europe but I am trying to make some sense of it, and am struggling.
Population. Density.
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