Deposit given, car not as described
Discussion
Hi chaps, not sure how to deal with this situation.
I run a small specialist car sales company, so I am trade. I buy cars regularly, old and new.
I spotted a car I wanted, spoke to him, went through the car and paperwork over the phone, told me the bad bits, told me the good. Paid a deposit based on his info.
2 days later travelled to get it, planned to pay there and then and take it away.
He had owned the car from brand new, 11 years in total.
Car had been painted badly on one rear arch, paint depth equipment backed this up. Front bumper was also badly repaired on one side. All four wheels were corroded and scuffed (he did tell me two were curbed, but no mention of corrosion). A big dent with paint chipped on one of the rear quarter panels, and a 50p sized rust bubble on the other rear quarter. Absolutely not as he described it on the phone.
So, my £250 deposit - Where do I stand? I said he could take £50 for his time and to reinstate the advert on here, but he said no way, the deposit is now his to keep as I hadn't stuck to my side of the deal. I.e, buying it.
I'd of had no problem taking it if it was right, but I won't stock bad cars.
So, me being trade, him being Mr private seller, have I a leg to stand on? Thankfully I've not been in this situation before, ive either taken the car or had my deposit refunded in these cases.
Thanks
I run a small specialist car sales company, so I am trade. I buy cars regularly, old and new.
I spotted a car I wanted, spoke to him, went through the car and paperwork over the phone, told me the bad bits, told me the good. Paid a deposit based on his info.
2 days later travelled to get it, planned to pay there and then and take it away.
He had owned the car from brand new, 11 years in total.
Car had been painted badly on one rear arch, paint depth equipment backed this up. Front bumper was also badly repaired on one side. All four wheels were corroded and scuffed (he did tell me two were curbed, but no mention of corrosion). A big dent with paint chipped on one of the rear quarter panels, and a 50p sized rust bubble on the other rear quarter. Absolutely not as he described it on the phone.
So, my £250 deposit - Where do I stand? I said he could take £50 for his time and to reinstate the advert on here, but he said no way, the deposit is now his to keep as I hadn't stuck to my side of the deal. I.e, buying it.
I'd of had no problem taking it if it was right, but I won't stock bad cars.
So, me being trade, him being Mr private seller, have I a leg to stand on? Thankfully I've not been in this situation before, ive either taken the car or had my deposit refunded in these cases.
Thanks
If it was the other way around, ie Private deposit with a trader, I'm sure it would be open and shut case. The fact he's a private seller/ you're trade should have no bearing on the fact he's essentially in possession of your money?
Threaten him with the police and I'm sure he'll change his tune quick enough.
Alternatively give 101 non emergency police number a ring.
Threaten him with the police and I'm sure he'll change his tune quick enough.
Alternatively give 101 non emergency police number a ring.
I have no knowledge of the legality of it but from a moral stand point - yes you may say the car isn't as described, but it depends how specific you asked.
If an 11 year old car has dents and chips and paint repairs - to me that may be described as "average condition" not "good" but to someone else, they may say "it's in good condition" so I guess it depends on if you specifically asked for any rust or paint repairs etc to be claimed over the phone? and did you verbally confirm that you will pay the deposit subject to it being EXACTLY as described etc?
If an 11 year old car has dents and chips and paint repairs - to me that may be described as "average condition" not "good" but to someone else, they may say "it's in good condition" so I guess it depends on if you specifically asked for any rust or paint repairs etc to be claimed over the phone? and did you verbally confirm that you will pay the deposit subject to it being EXACTLY as described etc?
Buff Mchugelarge said:
If it was the other way around, ie Private deposit with a trader, I'm sure it would be open and shut case. The fact he's a private seller/ you're trade should have no bearing on the fact he's essentially in possession of your money?
Threaten him with the police and I'm sure he'll change his tune quick enough.
Alternatively give 101 non emergency police number a ring.
This is my understanding on it too - If someone placed a deposit on a car of mine in stock, and turned up and found it not as described (never happened thankfully), then trade description acts apply, and of course I would have no issue giving it back. If the buyer simply decided he didn't like the colour, it's a different matter, but I have also given deposits back in this instance too, and he came back to buy a different colour 5 weeks later.Threaten him with the police and I'm sure he'll change his tune quick enough.
Alternatively give 101 non emergency police number a ring.
I'm just not sure on the trade to private situation, I can't see why it would make a difference if I'm honest, it is my money as you say.
I have tried to contact him via text as he wont answer his phone, I put this morning that I would be contacting small claims court if I don't hear from him.
Riknos said:
I have no knowledge of the legality of it but from a moral stand point - yes you may say the car isn't as described, but it depends how specific you asked.
If an 11 year old car has dents and chips and paint repairs - to me that may be described as "average condition" not "good" but to someone else, they may say "it's in good condition" so I guess it depends on if you specifically asked for any rust or paint repairs etc to be claimed over the phone? and did you verbally confirm that you will pay the deposit subject to it being EXACTLY as described etc?
I'm very specific, I asked if the car had any previous paintwork repairs, any rust, wheels curbed, replaced windscreen, servicing issues, warranty issues, dents or scratches. He tried saying whilst I was stood there that it is an 11 year old car, but his advert still States today that it's accident damage free and good condition, it is a rare collectable car with low mileage, and it didnt even meet the requirements of my non petrol head mate who came with me - Even he said it wasn't great!If an 11 year old car has dents and chips and paint repairs - to me that may be described as "average condition" not "good" but to someone else, they may say "it's in good condition" so I guess it depends on if you specifically asked for any rust or paint repairs etc to be claimed over the phone? and did you verbally confirm that you will pay the deposit subject to it being EXACTLY as described etc?
tjob said:
Riknos said:
I have no knowledge of the legality of it but from a moral stand point - yes you may say the car isn't as described, but it depends how specific you asked.
If an 11 year old car has dents and chips and paint repairs - to me that may be described as "average condition" not "good" but to someone else, they may say "it's in good condition" so I guess it depends on if you specifically asked for any rust or paint repairs etc to be claimed over the phone? and did you verbally confirm that you will pay the deposit subject to it being EXACTLY as described etc?
I'm very specific, I asked if the car had any previous paintwork repairs, any rust, wheels curbed, replaced windscreen, servicing issues, warranty issues, dents or scratches. He tried saying whilst I was stood there that it is an 11 year old car, but his advert still States today that it's accident damage free and good condition, it is a rare collectable car with low mileage, and it didnt even meet the requirements of my non petrol head mate who came with me - Even he said it wasn't great!If an 11 year old car has dents and chips and paint repairs - to me that may be described as "average condition" not "good" but to someone else, they may say "it's in good condition" so I guess it depends on if you specifically asked for any rust or paint repairs etc to be claimed over the phone? and did you verbally confirm that you will pay the deposit subject to it being EXACTLY as described etc?
As the expert we are expected to know what we are doing (ie don't trust a private sale description of a car), but the retail customer (seller) is not an 'expert' in describing condition so I don't think there is any legal ground for the trader getting a deposit back based on how you describe a car v's how a consumer describes his car - I'd just put it down to (bad) experience.
Think of it as a lucky escape at least you have not bought it unseen! The number of cars I've bought through the trade that when they are delivered are nothing like as described (but its too late by that stage to do anything about it - Autotrademail has a lot to answer for when it comes to badly described cars)
Think of it as a lucky escape at least you have not bought it unseen! The number of cars I've bought through the trade that when they are delivered are nothing like as described (but its too late by that stage to do anything about it - Autotrademail has a lot to answer for when it comes to badly described cars)
Edited by rallycross on Thursday 20th November 16:23
rallycross said:
As the expert we are expected to know what we are doing, the retail customer (seller) is not an 'expert' so I don't think there is any legal ground for the trader getting a deposit back based on how you describe a car v's how a consumer describes his car - I'd just put it down to (bad) experience.
Think of it as a lucky escape at least you have not bought it unseen! The number of cars I've bought through the trade that when they are delivered are nothing like as described (but its too late by that stage to do anything about it - Autotrademail has a lot to answer for when it comes to badly described cars)
Thanks - I do see this as a civil matter, so it's just a case of him acting morally in my opinion.Think of it as a lucky escape at least you have not bought it unseen! The number of cars I've bought through the trade that when they are delivered are nothing like as described (but its too late by that stage to do anything about it - Autotrademail has a lot to answer for when it comes to badly described cars)
And, that's why I never buy trade cars, ever
Whoever suggested the police has lost their minds - they'll probably hang up.
You're a trader, he's a private seller. In fairness, it's not totally different from his description, as the defects you point out are minor and relatively easily corrected. If you'd turned up and the engine or gearbox were borked then I think a court would find a different conclusion.
I don't think any court would find in your favour, given that you are a professional and he is not. You've lost £250 - count yourself lucky you didn't cough for £500.
You're a trader, he's a private seller. In fairness, it's not totally different from his description, as the defects you point out are minor and relatively easily corrected. If you'd turned up and the engine or gearbox were borked then I think a court would find a different conclusion.
I don't think any court would find in your favour, given that you are a professional and he is not. You've lost £250 - count yourself lucky you didn't cough for £500.
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