Discussion
This one seems to have slipped under everyone's radar. But following on from contacts made during my time running the Saab Gone thread, I returned from hospital to find this news in my inbox.
My old buddy Mr Muller has decided to place Spyker into the Dutch equivalent of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
So after walking away from Saab with no debt at all, Spyker now find themselves 13million Euros of the stuff, the staff haven't been paid, the suppliers haven't been paid, the taxman hasn't been paid. Is it just me or does all of that sound incredibly familiar?
But don't worry, he's already promising money from another investor. As you can see he's talking about linking up with a US manufacturer of electric aircraft. I'm guessing that'll be Mattel.
Anyone got North Street Capitals number?
My old buddy Mr Muller has decided to place Spyker into the Dutch equivalent of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
Victor Muller said:
”Over the past few years, Spyker has faced a number of serious difficulties and challenges resulting from, among others, the legacy of the F1 era and the acquisition of Saab Automobile AB. Our Management and Board have been working very hard in the last 12 months on a restructuring plan that includes the execution of Spyker’s B6 Venator programme, an entry-level luxury sports car which will give a larger audience access to the Spyker brand, and the merger with a US based manufacturer of high performance electric aircraft, the exciting new sustainable technology of which will find its way into future Spyker automobiles” said Victor R. Muller, Spyker founder and Chief Executive Officer. “After careful consideration of all available alternatives, the Company’s Directors and Management Boards determined that a voluntary petition for temporary moratorium of payment was a necessary and prudent step and the best way to secure and use the financing necessary to maintain operations and allow for a successful restructuring of the Company. We expect to emerge from this restructuring a stronger, more innovative company that is well positioned for growth and profitability. We are proud of the consistent high quality of our automobiles and our valued customer and partner relationships.”
In conjunction with the voluntary petition, the Company is in the process of securing a loan facility arranged by independent financiers which intends to provide an immediate source of funds to the Company, enabling it to satisfy the customary obligations associated with the daily operation of its business, including the timely payment of employee wages and other obligations.
The temporary moratorium of payment and following settlement with creditors is the next step in Spyker’s restructuring process. During the temporary moratorium of payment, suppliers should expect to be paid for post-petition purchases of goods and services in the ordinary course of business.
“On behalf of the entire management team, I would like to thank our customers, dealers and suppliers for their continued support during this process. I also want to recognise our dedicated employees, whose continued support and commitment are crucial to the future success of our company. We are all dedicated to making this financial restructuring a success. Since 2000, the year we were established, we have always lived by our company’s axiom “Nulla Tenaci In Via Est Via” ( Latin for “For the tenacious no road is impassible” ) and we will most certainly continue to do so” Victor R.Muller concluded.
This sentence: "an entry-level luxury sports car which will give a larger audience access to the Spyker brand," is good for a laugh. I'm guessing he was planning to build a 911/P13/AMG Coupe competitor. I'm sure that would have flown out of the showrooms as it clearly would have offered huge advantages over those vehicles. Plus of course, it is clearly all Saab's fault.In conjunction with the voluntary petition, the Company is in the process of securing a loan facility arranged by independent financiers which intends to provide an immediate source of funds to the Company, enabling it to satisfy the customary obligations associated with the daily operation of its business, including the timely payment of employee wages and other obligations.
The temporary moratorium of payment and following settlement with creditors is the next step in Spyker’s restructuring process. During the temporary moratorium of payment, suppliers should expect to be paid for post-petition purchases of goods and services in the ordinary course of business.
“On behalf of the entire management team, I would like to thank our customers, dealers and suppliers for their continued support during this process. I also want to recognise our dedicated employees, whose continued support and commitment are crucial to the future success of our company. We are all dedicated to making this financial restructuring a success. Since 2000, the year we were established, we have always lived by our company’s axiom “Nulla Tenaci In Via Est Via” ( Latin for “For the tenacious no road is impassible” ) and we will most certainly continue to do so” Victor R.Muller concluded.
So after walking away from Saab with no debt at all, Spyker now find themselves 13million Euros of the stuff, the staff haven't been paid, the suppliers haven't been paid, the taxman hasn't been paid. Is it just me or does all of that sound incredibly familiar?
But don't worry, he's already promising money from another investor. As you can see he's talking about linking up with a US manufacturer of electric aircraft. I'm guessing that'll be Mattel.
Anyone got North Street Capitals number?
Impasse said:
The "entry level luxury sports car" was most likely going to be a product of their close relationship with Lotus. Shame, both companies would have benefitted from that.
If that was the case and despite the fact that Lotus do need a bit of help, they could do without the kind that Mr Muller might bring. They've probably dodged a bullet because it would have ended up being De Lorean all over again. The two men are cut from very similar cloth.OP: You seem to have a lot of vitriol in your various posts about Spyker. Not sure why. I own one and have met Mr Muller many times, as well as factory staff and racing team. They are all enthusiasts and perhaps they are over-optimistic and set their sights a bit high at times, but in every dealing I have had they have integrity and true passion for building great cars. I wish there were more like them and fewer people that like sticking the knife in from their armchair.
BTW the car is great thanks and of all my collection, it's the one that's always fun to drive, and is a work of engineering art.
BTW the car is great thanks and of all my collection, it's the one that's always fun to drive, and is a work of engineering art.
spyker138 said:
OP: You seem to have a lot of vitriol in your various posts about Spyker. Not sure why. I own one and have met Mr Muller many times, as well as factory staff and racing team. They are all enthusiasts and perhaps they are over-optimistic and set their sights a bit high at times, but in every dealing I have had they have integrity and true passion for building great cars. I wish there were more like them and fewer people that like sticking the knife in from their armchair.
BTW the car is great thanks and of all my collection, it's the one that's always fun to drive, and is a work of engineering art.
I'm very pleased that you enjoy your Spyker. I have never driven one (or even seen on the road) and although they clearly don't sell in the numbers that have been needed, their build quality and a certain enjoyable quirkiness never seem to have been in doubt. I'm guessing as the years progress it will become a solid investment.BTW the car is great thanks and of all my collection, it's the one that's always fun to drive, and is a work of engineering art.
I'm not really going to get involved in defending my views about the man rather than the company but I'll do a quick précis here. The bad decisions that he made affected a lot of my friends hugely at the time but the past is the past and they have moved on. You say that you think the company were a little over-ambitious in their reach, I would say that was a bit of a understatement. To try and play with the big boys when you are a small sports car company with about 100 workers is one thing but when it involves an entire town, a global brand and 1000s of peoples livelihoods all over the world it becomes a totally different matter.
To a large degree, I very much admire the man & this why I compared him to De Lorean. He had a dream and he has gone for it. His negotiating skills and his ability to convince others to keep letting him trade rather that forcing the company into bankruptcy were quite extra-ordinary & I'm sure we'll see that coming to the fore again in the coming weeks. Seriously, the guy should publish a book on how to do it, I'd buy it a flash.
However, I do not compare him to De Lorean with regard to any serious illegal or ill-moral activities and I would not ever dream accusing him of doing so. As far as I am aware there has never been the slightest whisper of anything like that and I would never suggest that there were. The only possible legal problems that Muller might be facing would be over that incredibly grey area of possible tax avoidance/evasion and Spyker have been investigated by the Swedish and Dutch authorities and as far as I'm aware no charges were pressed, so therefore he is currently innocent of any offence in that matter too. Of course, as Muller is a fully trained corporate tax lawyer, I would have never expected there to be.
At the end of the day the simple truth is that GM should never have sold Saab to him. But they were desperate and of course, it made them not have to be the bad guy on a worldwide scale when the company had to be closed down. The good news for them was that they could blame their years of massive indecision and under-investment on Muller when it eventually went the way of all flesh. But in the meantime, Muller's dalliances with 'companies' like North Street Capital did far more damage to both his and Saab's reputation than some silly old sod sitting in his armchair "twisting the knife",
So that's that.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Further evidence that any small fry who think they can compete with Porsche/Jaguar at £60k or with Ferrari/Lambo at £150k is p155ing in the wind.
The era of the shed builders is long, long gone. Sad maybe - but fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This 100%.The era of the shed builders is long, long gone. Sad maybe - but fact.
Lets consider what Spyker is up against in the market they are currently competing against.
Ferrari 458
McLaren MP4/12C/650s
Lamborghini Huaran
Lamborghini Aventador
Aston Martins of various descriptions.
Porsche 911s of various descriptions.
Top of the Porsche Boxster/Caymans.
Audi R8s of various descriptions.
BMW I8.
Mercedes AMG Coupe.
Jaguar XF Coupe/Cabrio.
Bentley Continental GT
I'm sorry but lets face it the majority of people with that sort of money just wouldn't buy a Spyker. Plus a lot of those type of cars are leased too and I can't see the Spykers residuals being very high. And remember, this is before you start getting into the cars that are still to come like the McLaren SuperSport, Honda NSX or maybe even a new Esprit at some point.
Clearly Spyker were going to try and get into the upcoming boom market for super luxury 4x4s that is supposedly going to start in China soon with long awaited P2P model. However, that market place is not brilliant either.
Porsche Cayenne
Range Rover Autobiography
Audi Q7
Mercedes G Wagon/M Class.
And coming soon in that segment, you could have a Bentley, a Rolls Royce, a Jaguar or even god forbid, a Ferrari if all the rumours are true so why would you buy a Spyker?
It seems to me that unless you want to build an extreme track day car (Atom. Caterham, BAC.)the days of someone starting up a car company, getting their product to market and then getting people to buy it without vast quantities of money and a brand that people know are limited to say the least. It looks like Tesla are getting close but they have pretty deep pockets from what I can gather.
For a good example of this look at Gordon Murray's city car project. The brainchild of one of the greatest automotive minds of all time and the designer of one of the greatest cars to grace the planet, a city car which could set new standards but he went to every ones door and no one wanted to know. So he's ended up at Yamaha and its all gone worryingly quiet.
There will be others, who have a much more recognisable brand than Spyker, who will find themselves up against the wall in the coming years. Sadly I can't see it going any other way.
Toad Out.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Monday 8th December 11:54
I think Pagani went a long way into preventing Spyker getting anywhere. Both companies made cars with the same ideas (aircraft-inspired detailing and visual engineering) except Pagani's end product didn't look like it had been styled by a teenager on Alcopop's.
You'd have to be a bit thick to buy a Spyker, especially after that ill-advised F1 team shambles.
You'd have to be a bit thick to buy a Spyker, especially after that ill-advised F1 team shambles.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Oggs said:
Peking to Paris I'd have one of them.
A. Have you driven from Peking to Paris?B. Are you a serious potential customer for a sportscar in this price bracket?
If the answer to either of those is "yes" then perhaps you could have saved the company from collapse.
And besides the Peking to Paris never made production.
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