Help/Advice required - problems with car from dealer
Discussion
Morning Chaps and Chapettes
My girlfriend bought a car from a dealer earlier this year, and since then has had nothing but problems.
Shortly after purchase:
- the drivers foot-well had brake fluid leaking into it,
- the gearbox linkage mechanism needed replacing (kept jumping out of gear)
- the engine blew up - as they did not put any oil in it after the service. This was then replaced with another engine with ~90k on it (original engine had ~50k) they then advised that it would be best not to change the clock as it would make the car harder to sell on - and made out as if they were doing her a favour!!
- drivers window didn't go up/down at all,
- remote key fob doesn't work
While I appreciate that some of the aforementioned list could have been picked up on closer inspection at collection - I wasn't with her when she picked it up.
The main point is the engine and the lack of oil. It was a total drama trying to get them to admit liability and replace the engine, which eventually they did - after a lot of effort and chasing on our part! So after they replaced the engine with a ~90k mileage one (purposely bought a car with lower mileage to do our best to avoid any issues - or so we thought!) it has never run as smoothly as it possibly could have. They have checked it over and say its fine.
Today, my girlfriend has broken down on the motorway halfway between Liverpool and Manchester - AA guy has said that the car has been running on 3 cylinders rather than 4, and as such has used all the oil in the engine and went bang!
The AA guy has towed her home - but the car is out of action and we are potentially looking at quite a hefty bill for ANOTHER engine.
My question is:
Does anyone think we have a case here to take them to court, and if so - do you think it would be worthwhile, the car is a 2002, "52" plate - not worth a lot of money - but it was still £1600 at time of purchase.
Thanks in advance, Jamie.
Moderator edit: no naming & shaming please.
My girlfriend bought a car from a dealer earlier this year, and since then has had nothing but problems.
Shortly after purchase:
- the drivers foot-well had brake fluid leaking into it,
- the gearbox linkage mechanism needed replacing (kept jumping out of gear)
- the engine blew up - as they did not put any oil in it after the service. This was then replaced with another engine with ~90k on it (original engine had ~50k) they then advised that it would be best not to change the clock as it would make the car harder to sell on - and made out as if they were doing her a favour!!
- drivers window didn't go up/down at all,
- remote key fob doesn't work
While I appreciate that some of the aforementioned list could have been picked up on closer inspection at collection - I wasn't with her when she picked it up.
The main point is the engine and the lack of oil. It was a total drama trying to get them to admit liability and replace the engine, which eventually they did - after a lot of effort and chasing on our part! So after they replaced the engine with a ~90k mileage one (purposely bought a car with lower mileage to do our best to avoid any issues - or so we thought!) it has never run as smoothly as it possibly could have. They have checked it over and say its fine.
Today, my girlfriend has broken down on the motorway halfway between Liverpool and Manchester - AA guy has said that the car has been running on 3 cylinders rather than 4, and as such has used all the oil in the engine and went bang!
The AA guy has towed her home - but the car is out of action and we are potentially looking at quite a hefty bill for ANOTHER engine.
My question is:
Does anyone think we have a case here to take them to court, and if so - do you think it would be worthwhile, the car is a 2002, "52" plate - not worth a lot of money - but it was still £1600 at time of purchase.
Thanks in advance, Jamie.
Moderator edit: no naming & shaming please.
Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 23 December 13:48
How long have you had the car?
You are on dodgy ground with an old and cheap car. I suspect you are on your own really.
I guess your point of view is the replacement engine has always been faulty? Where as the seller will say it was fine and you have run it out of oil through carelessness.
You might be able to use the SOGA and take them to court but whether you would win or not is debatable. And if you did win you have the problem of getting them to pay up....
You are on dodgy ground with an old and cheap car. I suspect you are on your own really.
I guess your point of view is the replacement engine has always been faulty? Where as the seller will say it was fine and you have run it out of oil through carelessness.
You might be able to use the SOGA and take them to court but whether you would win or not is debatable. And if you did win you have the problem of getting them to pay up....
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 28th December 11:55
It's 12yrs old - cars have a design life of 8-10yrs. OK, some last a bit longer but they're on borrowed time.
There's a reason old cars are cheap. A new one would depreciate £1600 in less than 6mths.
Having said that, there have been some major dramas with the car. Might be worth asking for refund / compensation. Dealer will of course refuse, so use MoneyClaimOnLine and sue them. You might win anyway plus there's always a good chance they won't defend so you win by default.
There's a reason old cars are cheap. A new one would depreciate £1600 in less than 6mths.
Having said that, there have been some major dramas with the car. Might be worth asking for refund / compensation. Dealer will of course refuse, so use MoneyClaimOnLine and sue them. You might win anyway plus there's always a good chance they won't defend so you win by default.
DrDeAtH said:
Surely you would have known the engine was running on 3 cylinders. The additional racket and lack of power would have been the dead give away....
Your girlfriend drove it til it blew up... No clue of mechanical sympathy?
Just a different angle in which to look at things...
Sorry OP but this!Your girlfriend drove it til it blew up... No clue of mechanical sympathy?
Just a different angle in which to look at things...
You would atleast get a light well before the engine was out of oil, or some sort of warning as the car wouldn't be running right.
She had a fault and carried on, no two ways about it.
OP, this may sound brutal.....
Why buy a 12 year old car from a dealer? At £1,600 you're only getting a £800 car for your money. If your GF wanted a reliable car then perhaps look at a slightly newer one instead.
You could of course go down the small claims court case, but it would be stress, time consuming and also the slight matter you will have to spend more money on mechanical reports etc.
My advice is to put it down to experience, sell the car as spares or repairs (try to sell it back to the dealer first) or try ebay
Why buy a 12 year old car from a dealer? At £1,600 you're only getting a £800 car for your money. If your GF wanted a reliable car then perhaps look at a slightly newer one instead.
DrDeAtH said:
Surely you would have known the engine was running on 3 cylinders. The additional racket and lack of power would have been the dead give away....
Your girlfriend drove it til it blew up... No clue of mechanical sympathy?
Just a different angle in which to look at things...
^^ThisYour girlfriend drove it til it blew up... No clue of mechanical sympathy?
Just a different angle in which to look at things...
You could of course go down the small claims court case, but it would be stress, time consuming and also the slight matter you will have to spend more money on mechanical reports etc.
My advice is to put it down to experience, sell the car as spares or repairs (try to sell it back to the dealer first) or try ebay
Simple answer is that you may have a case.
But I do not agree with the AA man.
Just because an engine runs on 3 cylinders it does not mean it should go bang.
If the engine got no spark on one cylinder there would be fuel going down the exhaust and causing the catalyst to overheat, potentially clogging the exhaust and causing the vehicle to not run. It might also result in extra fuel in the sump, but in a short time probably not enough to cause a problem.
If the engine got no fuel in one cylinder the engine would just run badly.
Neither scenario results in the engine losing oil and seizing.
Replacing a 50,000 mile old engine with a 90,000 mile old engine may have been the best they could do at the time to undo a mistake they made, but it's anybody's guess as to how thorough they were checking it over. The list of faults you experienced with the vehicle suggests they were not as thorough as they might have you believe.
I would have the engine checked to see if it has actually seized. I think using a mobile tuning guy to diagnose this and fix the misfire would be the most economical way to proceed.
Don't assume the worst - it may not be that bad. Get proper mechanics to diagnose the problem and fix only what's wrong, and not line the mechanic's pocket for his inability to diagnose the problem properly.
But I do not agree with the AA man.
Just because an engine runs on 3 cylinders it does not mean it should go bang.
If the engine got no spark on one cylinder there would be fuel going down the exhaust and causing the catalyst to overheat, potentially clogging the exhaust and causing the vehicle to not run. It might also result in extra fuel in the sump, but in a short time probably not enough to cause a problem.
If the engine got no fuel in one cylinder the engine would just run badly.
Neither scenario results in the engine losing oil and seizing.
Replacing a 50,000 mile old engine with a 90,000 mile old engine may have been the best they could do at the time to undo a mistake they made, but it's anybody's guess as to how thorough they were checking it over. The list of faults you experienced with the vehicle suggests they were not as thorough as they might have you believe.
I would have the engine checked to see if it has actually seized. I think using a mobile tuning guy to diagnose this and fix the misfire would be the most economical way to proceed.
Don't assume the worst - it may not be that bad. Get proper mechanics to diagnose the problem and fix only what's wrong, and not line the mechanic's pocket for his inability to diagnose the problem properly.
hmmm.... £1600 car is cheap in the grand scheme of things - appreciate it might not be to you, but it is.
The dealers probably did the best they could, replacing an engine on a car like that means they're basically out of pocket already.
If I was you I would have either not bought the car or refused to have an engine replacement and asked for money back instead.
You won't have bought through a main dealer so I suspect you may be out of luck.
The dealers probably did the best they could, replacing an engine on a car like that means they're basically out of pocket already.
If I was you I would have either not bought the car or refused to have an engine replacement and asked for money back instead.
You won't have bought through a main dealer so I suspect you may be out of luck.
Cut your losses - put it on eBay, spares or repair. There's no point chasing the dealer at this stage, and after he's already replaced one engine. Running on 3 cylinders shouldnt make it lose all its oil - as others have suggested, your girlfriend may be playing some part in the bad luck!
Have you been in for a chat to the dealer? Going in with a friendly attitude and telling them what happened (not blaming them at that point) may get you further that other routes.
Might be a complete waste of time but may also come to some sort of agreement, good part exchange or free/cheap labour may be a good compromise for everyone...
Then again they may lock the gates when they see you coming!
Might be a complete waste of time but may also come to some sort of agreement, good part exchange or free/cheap labour may be a good compromise for everyone...
Then again they may lock the gates when they see you coming!
Steve_F said:
Have you been in for a chat to the dealer? Going in with a friendly attitude and telling them what happened (not blaming them at that point) may get you further that other routes.
Might be a complete waste of time but may also come to some sort of agreement, good part exchange or free/cheap labour may be a good compromise for everyone...
Then again they may lock the gates when they see you coming!
yea - thought about this, however it would appear that the used car dealership in question has moved premises / been chucked out after not paying his rent for the yard he was trading from. I did post the name of the company at the start, but the Mods took it off, which is fair enough. Might be a complete waste of time but may also come to some sort of agreement, good part exchange or free/cheap labour may be a good compromise for everyone...
Then again they may lock the gates when they see you coming!
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