Idea for a new Land Rover Model
Discussion
I see JLR have replaced the Freelander II with a new, and according to the motoring press, very capable model. My one gripe is this new Freelander (or Discovery Sport as it is now known) is quite a bit larger than previous models (a 7 seater)an as such, I'd imagine, quite a bit cumbersome in an urban environment.
Desirably badged competitors offer small quality SUVs in the form of the X1 and Q3 and the sales success of the Captur, Kuga, Qashqai demonstrate a strong market for smaller SUVs in general.
Wouldn't it be an idea for JLR to slip in a smaller cheaper introduction to the Land Rover brand in the form of a model about the same size as the original Freelander and call it..... well, a Freelander?
Desirably badged competitors offer small quality SUVs in the form of the X1 and Q3 and the sales success of the Captur, Kuga, Qashqai demonstrate a strong market for smaller SUVs in general.
Wouldn't it be an idea for JLR to slip in a smaller cheaper introduction to the Land Rover brand in the form of a model about the same size as the original Freelander and call it..... well, a Freelander?
stichill99 said:
Chance would be a fine thing! Its probably going to be a soft roader! But then Land Rover havn't given a s
t about Defender customers for years. Have you had a look in below defender wheel arches at the beige primer with no stone chip and no wax oil. Just a bloody disgrace!
defender is commerical product with retail availablity t about Defender customers for years. Have you had a look in below defender wheel arches at the beige primer with no stone chip and no wax oil. Just a bloody disgrace!LRSV makes the money on defenders with ES and uutility sales and their added value items.
cptsideways said:
It's not "that big" & its not a 7 seater, its a 5 seater with a couple of kiddy seats in the boot. It will fit in shopping center car parks just fine.
I'm sure a Mondeo estate is a lot lot bigger
Disco Sport: 4599mm long, 2,173mm wide I'm sure a Mondeo estate is a lot lot bigger
Mondeo Estate: 4867mm long, 2121mm wide
Six of one etc, but you're right. The Discovery Sport is hardly a behemoth of a vehicle.
P I Staker said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Isn't the new Defender going to be a full fat rufty tufty off roader rather than an SUV?
Look at the way the brand is going, I doubt it. 
mph1977 said:
P I Staker said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Isn't the new Defender going to be a full fat rufty tufty off roader rather than an SUV?
Look at the way the brand is going, I doubt it. Impasse said:
mph1977 said:
P I Staker said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Isn't the new Defender going to be a full fat rufty tufty off roader rather than an SUV?
Look at the way the brand is going, I doubt it. Yes the current models are fairly capable, they don't have much wheel travel but the TCS does it's best to make up for it. Unfortunately the air gives limited traction opportunities. They have big bodies with large over hangs and low sills likely to be caught and damaged or get hung up on things. The size of the brakes mean they require large wheels which gives you vulnerable tyre sidewalls and at the moment a restricted tyre choice.
If you do get a bit stuck you jump out, walk about for a bit, jump back in... Oh s
t the cream carpets are ruined. They aren't durable vehicles and don't have the adaptability of the Defender.
I don't think the Defender is some kind of hero, I've driven one 8 hours down to Wales and could barely walk for half an hour afterwards. So there is definitely room for improvement, but I would hate to see it turned in to a fully independent big bodied luxury vehicle like the rest of the range.
P I Staker said:
Impasse said:
mph1977 said:
P I Staker said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Isn't the new Defender going to be a full fat rufty tufty off roader rather than an SUV?
Look at the way the brand is going, I doubt it. Yes the current models are fairly capable, they don't have much wheel travel but the TCS does it's best to make up for it. Unfortunately the air gives limited traction opportunities. They have big bodies with large over hangs and low sills likely to be caught and damaged or get hung up on things. The size of the brakes mean they require large wheels which gives you vulnerable tyre sidewalls and at the moment a restricted tyre choice.
If you do get a bit stuck you jump out, walk about for a bit, jump back in... Oh s
t the cream carpets are ruined. They aren't durable vehicles and don't have the adaptability of the Defender.
I don't think the Defender is some kind of hero, I've driven one 8 hours down to Wales and could barely walk for half an hour afterwards. So there is definitely room for improvement, but I would hate to see it turned in to a fully independent big bodied luxury vehicle like the rest of the range.
Especially when that very niche, specialist market firstly doesn't spend mega bucks historically and also prefers to build their own vehicles.
Most modern Defenders are bought by urban people for a spot of fun since the Govt ceased being JLRs primary customer for the product.
Modern JLR products are capable of more offroading than any commercially viable group of humans on this planet ever do so they have their product right.
It is people who say a company must produce an extreme, specialist product for a cash poor, minuscule, niche market that are incorrect.
What does make more sense is to consider 'utility' and not 'extreme offroad' as a common sense angle. What JLR will lose completely when the Defender goes is any product that is stripped out, can be hosed out or have dead bodies slung in the back and wanged over a few fields.
But even then, you'll be able to buy recon Landies for decades to come so even that market is fully covered.
Sadly, you look anywhere on the planet and any area which has the wealth to buy new, luxury cars has already replaced all tracks with tarmac. Extreme offroad isn't a necessity, it is a leisure persuit.
DonkeyApple said:
This is correct but there is no feasible market for the tiny, tiny, tiny number of people who do 'proper' off roading.
The overwhelming majority of sales are exports.Here in the UK a lot of cars don't go off road, but in the rest of the world it is different. The 24% of cars sold in China, for example, are much more likely to be driven on lower grade roads than here in the UK where 18% of the sales are are made.
In a lot of the world, drive outside the main cities/towns and the surface is not tarmac roads.
Maybe that is both why they design them how they do and why they are selling them how they are.
DonkeyApple said:
This is correct but there is no feasible market for the tiny, tiny, tiny number of people who do 'proper' off roading.
Especially when that very niche, specialist market firstly doesn't spend mega bucks historically and also prefers to build their own vehicles.
Most modern Defenders are bought by urban people for a spot of fun since the Govt ceased being JLRs primary customer for the product.
Modern JLR products are capable of more offroading than any commercially viable group of humans on this planet ever do so they have their product right.
It is people who say a company must produce an extreme, specialist product for a cash poor, minuscule, niche market that are incorrect.
What does make more sense is to consider 'utility' and not 'extreme offroad' as a common sense angle. What JLR will lose completely when the Defender goes is any product that is stripped out, can be hosed out or have dead bodies slung in the back and wanged over a few fields.
But even then, you'll be able to buy recon Landies for decades to come so even that market is fully covered.
Sadly, you look anywhere on the planet and any area which has the wealth to buy new, luxury cars has already replaced all tracks with tarmac. Extreme offroad isn't a necessity, it is a leisure persuit.
I've got to agree with you!Especially when that very niche, specialist market firstly doesn't spend mega bucks historically and also prefers to build their own vehicles.
Most modern Defenders are bought by urban people for a spot of fun since the Govt ceased being JLRs primary customer for the product.
Modern JLR products are capable of more offroading than any commercially viable group of humans on this planet ever do so they have their product right.
It is people who say a company must produce an extreme, specialist product for a cash poor, minuscule, niche market that are incorrect.
What does make more sense is to consider 'utility' and not 'extreme offroad' as a common sense angle. What JLR will lose completely when the Defender goes is any product that is stripped out, can be hosed out or have dead bodies slung in the back and wanged over a few fields.
But even then, you'll be able to buy recon Landies for decades to come so even that market is fully covered.
Sadly, you look anywhere on the planet and any area which has the wealth to buy new, luxury cars has already replaced all tracks with tarmac. Extreme offroad isn't a necessity, it is a leisure persuit.
Don't get me wrong, I know that Land Rover is a business and so has to provide products that people want to buy. That doesn't make me happy about it though.
If anyone hasn't heard of Ibex before, they are the future of the Defender.
P I Staker said:
Have either of you ever actually done some proper offroading?
Yes the current models are fairly capable, they don't have much wheel travel but the TCS does it's best to make up for it. Unfortunately the air gives limited traction opportunities. They have big bodies with large over hangs and low sills likely to be caught and damaged or get hung up on things. The size of the brakes mean they require large wheels which gives you vulnerable tyre sidewalls and at the moment a restricted tyre choice.
If you do get a bit stuck you jump out, walk about for a bit, jump back in... Oh st the cream carpets are ruined.
They aren't durable vehicles and don't have the adaptability of the Defender.
I don't think the Defender is some kind of hero, I've driven one 8 hours down to Wales and could barely walk for half an hour afterwards. So there is definitely room for improvement, but I would hate to see it turned in to a fully independent big bodied luxury vehicle like the rest of the range.
+1. I wouldn't want to take the Disco Sport, Evoque or Freelander to some of the places I've driven old Defenders and Discoveries. I consider them "light duty" SUVs and they'd get absolutely wrecked if you tried any "proper" off-roading (read: not contrived courses at an experience day) with them. I've already seen a few Evoques with half the bumpers torn off (as happened when Tom Ford tested one for Top Gear Magazine).Yes the current models are fairly capable, they don't have much wheel travel but the TCS does it's best to make up for it. Unfortunately the air gives limited traction opportunities. They have big bodies with large over hangs and low sills likely to be caught and damaged or get hung up on things. The size of the brakes mean they require large wheels which gives you vulnerable tyre sidewalls and at the moment a restricted tyre choice.
If you do get a bit stuck you jump out, walk about for a bit, jump back in... Oh s
t the cream carpets are ruined. They aren't durable vehicles and don't have the adaptability of the Defender.
I don't think the Defender is some kind of hero, I've driven one 8 hours down to Wales and could barely walk for half an hour afterwards. So there is definitely room for improvement, but I would hate to see it turned in to a fully independent big bodied luxury vehicle like the rest of the range.
The larger models aren't much better. - I've posted multiple times that I'm swapping the standard plastic bumpers, sills etc. on my Disco 2 for heavy duty equivalents; that's so that I can go where a Defender can without causing £thousands worth of damage. The problem is there's far too much vulnerable, delicate and expensive bodywork and trim that's right in the firing line if you do anything serious with them. The newer models are worse than the old ones in that regard and that means you don't dare make full use of their capability.
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