Twingo 133 cup or fiesta ST 150
Discussion
Looking at these cars
Twingo- Costs more but cheaper running costs and insurance, but less power, and french reliability.
Fiesta ST 150- Costs less for a mint low mileage late model, better equiped, faster more torque, higher insurance,less mpg. (more money to spend on tuning though)
what are the thoughts of the masses? which would you pick
Twingo- Costs more but cheaper running costs and insurance, but less power, and french reliability.
Fiesta ST 150- Costs less for a mint low mileage late model, better equiped, faster more torque, higher insurance,less mpg. (more money to spend on tuning though)
what are the thoughts of the masses? which would you pick
I have a twingo, so I'll give you an idea of costs etc...
So far had it 1 year and it has cost:
2 Tyres ~£160
Fuel sensor ~£230
Fuel ~36mpg (there's no gauge so you need to work it out manually)
Road tax £180
Insurance £600 because I'm 20 and have no NCB.
I don't think reliability is a problem, mine is on 53k and hasn't even a hint of a problem apart from that fuel sensor, which could have been DIYed much cheaper...
It's fantastic fun to drive as well but the ride is quite crashy, potholes hurt!
Also very unsure about prices as the market is so small and a fair few of the cars for sale on auto trader have been there for ages.
So far had it 1 year and it has cost:
2 Tyres ~£160
Fuel sensor ~£230
Fuel ~36mpg (there's no gauge so you need to work it out manually)
Road tax £180
Insurance £600 because I'm 20 and have no NCB.
I don't think reliability is a problem, mine is on 53k and hasn't even a hint of a problem apart from that fuel sensor, which could have been DIYed much cheaper...
It's fantastic fun to drive as well but the ride is quite crashy, potholes hurt!
Also very unsure about prices as the market is so small and a fair few of the cars for sale on auto trader have been there for ages.
Krikkit said:
French reliability? What a load of balls.
This, people need to get over the "French reliability" thing, it's pretty boring now. I have no experience of the Fiesta, however I ran a Twingo 133 with Cup Pack as a demo for six months.
The 133 is fantastic fun, not massively quick but tbh it doesn't really matter, I will say though: it needs a sixth gear (6 speed box doesn't fit) , motorway driving can be a chore as it isn't refined at all and gets very loud with engine and road noise, sometimes after a hard day at work I really loathed the drive home.
The drivers seat height is too high and the driving position is a bit odd, fuel economy isn't that great as it has to be worked to get the power out of it.
I should imagine the Fiesta is a completely different beast, more refined, however less fun though.
In summary though; given the compromises, I loved the 133.
You've had Twingo, I'll go ST.
Owned since August 13.
Tyres - I'm on Yoko Parada 2's - £90 each.
Water pump - DIY'd - £30
Fuel - 26mpg(ish, there's no gauge so you need to work it out manually) but I drive it hard.
Road tax - £230 - I think, £20pm direct debit.
Insurance £600 - I'm 24 have 3 years NCB, Mrs named driver, any mods up to 180bhp FOC.
Servicing is same £ as a regular Fiesta.
I don't think reliability is a problem, mine is on 90k and hasn't even a hint of a problem apart from that water pump, which is very common and easy to DIY.
It's fantastic fun to drive, ride isn't terrible, stiff though. I'm on -35mm Eibachs and it feels very much standard, just looks lower.
Owned since August 13.
Tyres - I'm on Yoko Parada 2's - £90 each.
Water pump - DIY'd - £30
Fuel - 26mpg(ish, there's no gauge so you need to work it out manually) but I drive it hard.
Road tax - £230 - I think, £20pm direct debit.
Insurance £600 - I'm 24 have 3 years NCB, Mrs named driver, any mods up to 180bhp FOC.
Servicing is same £ as a regular Fiesta.
I don't think reliability is a problem, mine is on 90k and hasn't even a hint of a problem apart from that water pump, which is very common and easy to DIY.
It's fantastic fun to drive, ride isn't terrible, stiff though. I'm on -35mm Eibachs and it feels very much standard, just looks lower.
Mrs AngryDog has a Twingo 133 (face lift without Cup pack, but on 17" alloys).
I like it. Its fun, but I wish it was quicker. I think it is fine for her, but for me its lacking some power.
I echo the comments about the gearing. It really needs a 6th gear. 70mph in 5th is pulling quite high on the revs. It is crashy, the suspension is hard and I don't fit in it very well, I get the feeling it designed for people smaller than 5ft10!
It does have an OBC for MPG (its a 62 reg). Averages mid 30's.
They also only sit 4 people, but then I cant see a Fiesta with 5 people in being comfortable (in fact I know a Fiesta isn't comfortable with 5 people in).
YMMV.
I like it. Its fun, but I wish it was quicker. I think it is fine for her, but for me its lacking some power.
I echo the comments about the gearing. It really needs a 6th gear. 70mph in 5th is pulling quite high on the revs. It is crashy, the suspension is hard and I don't fit in it very well, I get the feeling it designed for people smaller than 5ft10!
It does have an OBC for MPG (its a 62 reg). Averages mid 30's.
They also only sit 4 people, but then I cant see a Fiesta with 5 people in being comfortable (in fact I know a Fiesta isn't comfortable with 5 people in).
YMMV.
Yes, I'll echo the comments about the gearing. 70mph is about 4k res in 5th, which is far too noisy.
I did a lot of motorway miles in the summer and chose to sit at 50-60 instead just for some peace.
All in I like it as a car and it's very driveable, you can have a lot of fun at sensible speeds.
Why no thought of a Swift Sport?
I did a lot of motorway miles in the summer and chose to sit at 50-60 instead just for some peace.
All in I like it as a car and it's very driveable, you can have a lot of fun at sensible speeds.
Why no thought of a Swift Sport?
Never really fancied the suzui swift although they look incredibly well put together from a drivers perspective, however im going to look at soom twingos this week, only ones nearby though are the 1.2 turbo twingos, so I will see what they are like for now.
If I did get the turbo I imagine it would be a laugh to drive , and mildly tune that a bit.
Insurance were I live is very high , so might have to go with the 1.2 gt for a year then upgrade.
If I did get the turbo I imagine it would be a laugh to drive , and mildly tune that a bit.
Insurance were I live is very high , so might have to go with the 1.2 gt for a year then upgrade.
designermatt said:
Never really fancied the suzui swift although they look incredibly well put together from a drivers perspective, however im going to look at soom twingos this week, only ones nearby though are the 1.2 turbo twingos, so I will see what they are like for now.
If I did get the turbo I imagine it would be a laugh to drive , and mildly tune that a bit.
Insurance were I live is very high , so might have to go with the 1.2 gt for a year then upgrade.
The GT TCe is a good fun car and has the same driving position and interior as the 133, however the way the way that it drives when compared to the 133 is completely different. If I did get the turbo I imagine it would be a laugh to drive , and mildly tune that a bit.
Insurance were I live is very high , so might have to go with the 1.2 gt for a year then upgrade.
My girlfriend used to have a Fiesta St 06 plate, now owns a twingo 133 with cup packs and says she much prefers the twingo but it does have very stiff suspension and is a bit plasticy inside.
I own a Swift Sport and love it even if it didn't stay standard for long haha. Now on coilovers with bucket seats etc.
I'd personally go for the Swift Sport over them all but the Twingo is a good laugh to drive also.
I own a Swift Sport and love it even if it didn't stay standard for long haha. Now on coilovers with bucket seats etc.
I'd personally go for the Swift Sport over them all but the Twingo is a good laugh to drive also.
I can give you the running costs of the Twingo GT if you are gonna look at them.
I bought it for £7700 when it was 2 years old and 17,000 miles. I have had it 4 and a half years and have done 74,000 miles in it (91k on the the clock now). Probably worth ~£2500 for a private sale.
It costs
£130/year tax.
~£400 to insure (fully comp, 25, 4 years NCB, partner named on insurance too)
I tend to pay ~£80 a corner for tyres (think Avon ZV5 or similar)
It gets 40mpg usually. Which is just over 300 miles between fills. I have managed to get 400 miles between fills, which worked out to be 49.5mpg. This was driving like a saint though.
Servicing generally costs me £100/year. It does take quite expensive plugs though (think £20/plug) but they have replacement intervals of something like 80k miles. I've changed the front discs and pads twice. Seem to recall they costs about £130 for parts.
The cambelt needs changing every 5 years or 70k miles, so I had it done 2 years ago. It wasn't too expensive. About £200 I paid.
In terms of "breakdowns" it has never actually left me completely stranded. However two years ago it threw up an ABS light every now and again, the speedo would read -- and I'd lose the power steering. Switching on and off usually cleared it, but it got worse the next day. My Dad tried braking heavily (on an empty service road) and the brakes locked and tried to swing the car around - so we took it in to Renault. Diagnostic check, wiring inspection and eventually a replacement ABS unit cost me £735.50. A lot of that was main dealer labour costs.
A few months ago I noticed a slight hesitation when accelerating under high load (think 5th gear on the motorway up a hill, or from low revs). This developed into an intermittent misfire. Checked the air filter and it was badly clogged so replaced it for a tenner. However the misfire came back the next day. My Dad and I found it to be the coil pack, which was about £100 to replace.
Oh and this year I have had to replace a sidelight and headlight bulb.
According to the PH calculator it has cost me 22p/mile without depreciation.
With regards to the car itself...
I like it. It is nippy, but not quick. It handles and rides nicely enough. You can get the back end to "move" but I have never really tried to provoke proper lift off oversteer. The pedals are spaced nicely to heel and toe. The gear shift is fairly average, but nothing wrong with it. Seats are comfortable with a little bit of side support. There are only 4 seats in the car though. However the back ones fold almost flat and can be slide forwards like the front seats to improve the boot space. I can fit two full suitcases and carry on luggage with plenty of room to spare. I even squeezed a tumble dryer in it once.
As has been mentioned when discussing the 133 a motorway gear would improve the car. 70mph is about 3,400 rpm. It's noisy but not so much that you can't live with it and you can still maintain conversation no problem.
My car came with some nice toys which I was surprised to find on such a small car. I have bluetooth connectivity for calls, all controlled on a steering column stalk - which also controls the radio/cd player. It has automatic lights and automatic wipers as well. Electrically adjustable wing mirrors, but they are not heated and don't fold automatically. I don't have cruise control, but I never have so I don't miss it.
The radio and cd player sound fine and have the usual preset options etc. etc. These cars have a digital speedo and fuel gauge which is a little weird at first. Cost only the tacho is in front of you. The plus side is I know that 32mph = 30mph on GPS and those speed signs - not so easy with an analogue speedo. Downside is because it is in the middle of the car the mrs knows how fast we are going all the time. Having a digital fuel gauge is odd as well - it is split into 8 blocks. I have got used to it now, and know that the first block can be anywhere between 40 and 70 miles (depending on how far up the pipe before the pump shutoff) and annoyingly the second to last block seems to only last about 25-30 miles (tank shape maybe?)
In terms of turbo lag and boost threshold, well the turbo is small so there's not too much noticeable lag - obviously it doesn't have the throttle response of a well tuned NA, but it's just a small city car at the end of the day. Boost threshold shouldn't be a problem most of the time. I have only been caught out a few times at roundabouts when I've let the car idle up to the roundabout in second and then tried to jump on the throttle to get onto the roundabout, takes awhile to get "on boost" then, but under normal driving you'll never really notice it.
Another thing to note is that there is an overboost function in these cars. It's not all that easy to detect, but in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears at full throttle the car allows the turbo to provide additional boost (for something like 30 seconds). It doesn't make much difference to be honest.
The interior is fairly cheap plastic, lacks all the perceived quality soft touch stuff that fills Audis and the like, but the car is light as a result. I have got some bad wear on the steering wheel now, despite not wearing any rings, the material is peeling off at the 9 and 3 positions. The rest of the car is holding up pretty well though.
Can't think of much else to say, and I have really waffled on now - you may take one test drive and hate them! If you want any more info, let me know.
TL:DR - a man waffles on about what is basically an ecobox.
I bought it for £7700 when it was 2 years old and 17,000 miles. I have had it 4 and a half years and have done 74,000 miles in it (91k on the the clock now). Probably worth ~£2500 for a private sale.
It costs
£130/year tax.
~£400 to insure (fully comp, 25, 4 years NCB, partner named on insurance too)
I tend to pay ~£80 a corner for tyres (think Avon ZV5 or similar)
It gets 40mpg usually. Which is just over 300 miles between fills. I have managed to get 400 miles between fills, which worked out to be 49.5mpg. This was driving like a saint though.
Servicing generally costs me £100/year. It does take quite expensive plugs though (think £20/plug) but they have replacement intervals of something like 80k miles. I've changed the front discs and pads twice. Seem to recall they costs about £130 for parts.
The cambelt needs changing every 5 years or 70k miles, so I had it done 2 years ago. It wasn't too expensive. About £200 I paid.
In terms of "breakdowns" it has never actually left me completely stranded. However two years ago it threw up an ABS light every now and again, the speedo would read -- and I'd lose the power steering. Switching on and off usually cleared it, but it got worse the next day. My Dad tried braking heavily (on an empty service road) and the brakes locked and tried to swing the car around - so we took it in to Renault. Diagnostic check, wiring inspection and eventually a replacement ABS unit cost me £735.50. A lot of that was main dealer labour costs.
A few months ago I noticed a slight hesitation when accelerating under high load (think 5th gear on the motorway up a hill, or from low revs). This developed into an intermittent misfire. Checked the air filter and it was badly clogged so replaced it for a tenner. However the misfire came back the next day. My Dad and I found it to be the coil pack, which was about £100 to replace.
Oh and this year I have had to replace a sidelight and headlight bulb.
According to the PH calculator it has cost me 22p/mile without depreciation.
With regards to the car itself...
I like it. It is nippy, but not quick. It handles and rides nicely enough. You can get the back end to "move" but I have never really tried to provoke proper lift off oversteer. The pedals are spaced nicely to heel and toe. The gear shift is fairly average, but nothing wrong with it. Seats are comfortable with a little bit of side support. There are only 4 seats in the car though. However the back ones fold almost flat and can be slide forwards like the front seats to improve the boot space. I can fit two full suitcases and carry on luggage with plenty of room to spare. I even squeezed a tumble dryer in it once.
As has been mentioned when discussing the 133 a motorway gear would improve the car. 70mph is about 3,400 rpm. It's noisy but not so much that you can't live with it and you can still maintain conversation no problem.
My car came with some nice toys which I was surprised to find on such a small car. I have bluetooth connectivity for calls, all controlled on a steering column stalk - which also controls the radio/cd player. It has automatic lights and automatic wipers as well. Electrically adjustable wing mirrors, but they are not heated and don't fold automatically. I don't have cruise control, but I never have so I don't miss it.
The radio and cd player sound fine and have the usual preset options etc. etc. These cars have a digital speedo and fuel gauge which is a little weird at first. Cost only the tacho is in front of you. The plus side is I know that 32mph = 30mph on GPS and those speed signs - not so easy with an analogue speedo. Downside is because it is in the middle of the car the mrs knows how fast we are going all the time. Having a digital fuel gauge is odd as well - it is split into 8 blocks. I have got used to it now, and know that the first block can be anywhere between 40 and 70 miles (depending on how far up the pipe before the pump shutoff) and annoyingly the second to last block seems to only last about 25-30 miles (tank shape maybe?)
In terms of turbo lag and boost threshold, well the turbo is small so there's not too much noticeable lag - obviously it doesn't have the throttle response of a well tuned NA, but it's just a small city car at the end of the day. Boost threshold shouldn't be a problem most of the time. I have only been caught out a few times at roundabouts when I've let the car idle up to the roundabout in second and then tried to jump on the throttle to get onto the roundabout, takes awhile to get "on boost" then, but under normal driving you'll never really notice it.
Another thing to note is that there is an overboost function in these cars. It's not all that easy to detect, but in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears at full throttle the car allows the turbo to provide additional boost (for something like 30 seconds). It doesn't make much difference to be honest.
The interior is fairly cheap plastic, lacks all the perceived quality soft touch stuff that fills Audis and the like, but the car is light as a result. I have got some bad wear on the steering wheel now, despite not wearing any rings, the material is peeling off at the 9 and 3 positions. The rest of the car is holding up pretty well though.
Can't think of much else to say, and I have really waffled on now - you may take one test drive and hate them! If you want any more info, let me know.
TL:DR - a man waffles on about what is basically an ecobox.
I'd say tough choice, as they are both similar cars...
I did have an 08 Fiesta ST from new so there might be a little bias in what I say.
I didn't have to spend anything out of the ordinary on it, just servicing and tyres and one centre cap.
I did a motorway commute and got 30MPG out of mine (over 3.5 years of ownership). The low gearing doesn't help.
Breaks were great, steering had a reasonable weight and speed, I did want the steering to be a little faster.
I loved the chassis, and miss the honesty of the car. The heated front windscreen is sure missed on colder days like these...
Do watch as the back end can be a little light...
My only negative experience was dealing with Ford dealerships for servicing.
It's a great choice to have to make. You are choosing between two cracking / fun cars. I do think it would come down to personal preference.
I did have an 08 Fiesta ST from new so there might be a little bias in what I say.
I didn't have to spend anything out of the ordinary on it, just servicing and tyres and one centre cap.
I did a motorway commute and got 30MPG out of mine (over 3.5 years of ownership). The low gearing doesn't help.
Breaks were great, steering had a reasonable weight and speed, I did want the steering to be a little faster.
I loved the chassis, and miss the honesty of the car. The heated front windscreen is sure missed on colder days like these...
Do watch as the back end can be a little light...
My only negative experience was dealing with Ford dealerships for servicing.
It's a great choice to have to make. You are choosing between two cracking / fun cars. I do think it would come down to personal preference.
We ran a 05 ST for 4 or 5 years, it needed 2 front springs and a couple of sets of tyres that's it. It was thirsty and a bit low geared in top. I think Ford kept the power down to get them into a lower insurance group so there is potential for more go. I did read about gearbox issues on some forums but never had a problem with ours.
The gear box linkages are a common issue with them all as you say, not just the ST's. It can be a very straight forward fix though.
I think you are right, they did keep the power down for insurance purposes.
Space (I believe) was an issue with the ignition system too, hence no individual coil on plug.
The standard airbox design leaves alot to be desired too. I got 162.9 BHP from a proper cold air induction system. It greatly increased the engine's response and added a lovely noise
.
It's certainly got potential.
I think you are right, they did keep the power down for insurance purposes.
Space (I believe) was an issue with the ignition system too, hence no individual coil on plug.
The standard airbox design leaves alot to be desired too. I got 162.9 BHP from a proper cold air induction system. It greatly increased the engine's response and added a lovely noise
.It's certainly got potential.
The linkage on ours was starting to get a bit stiff when it got hot and I know what you mean about the fix. I read about gearboxes going bang but I think that may have been on hammered cars. Overall they are great little cars, under stressed and solid, I don't see them getting much cheaper.
As nuch as I wanted a nice ST or 133 , I have just bought (not f
king Brought) a Twingo 1.2GT Tce (turbo controlled efficiency).
This is the 4th car ive had and the fastest believe it or not because I have no (no claims) but oh boy does it shift , very quick motor ,
might only be a small turbo but it provides an excellent amount pf tprque and bhp through the revs. only £32 to fill up, and looks good.
Its the best equipped car ive had , a/c, steering wheel radio controls, aux cable, digital speedo which I like, tinted windows.
a few negatives though ive noticed, not great seats, can be a bit bouncy when driving, brakes over servoed, electric steering has little feel( but still remains great fun to chuckabout, when I press the clutch my foot hits the steering rack , and the pedals themselves are a bit over to the right.
Its a fantastic car though , I definately recomend one to a pistonheader , you wont regret it as a little runabout
king Brought) a Twingo 1.2GT Tce (turbo controlled efficiency).This is the 4th car ive had and the fastest believe it or not because I have no (no claims) but oh boy does it shift , very quick motor ,
might only be a small turbo but it provides an excellent amount pf tprque and bhp through the revs. only £32 to fill up, and looks good.
Its the best equipped car ive had , a/c, steering wheel radio controls, aux cable, digital speedo which I like, tinted windows.
a few negatives though ive noticed, not great seats, can be a bit bouncy when driving, brakes over servoed, electric steering has little feel( but still remains great fun to chuckabout, when I press the clutch my foot hits the steering rack , and the pedals themselves are a bit over to the right.
Its a fantastic car though , I definately recomend one to a pistonheader , you wont regret it as a little runabout
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