Tuesday 6th January 2015

Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet

Clio meets its Fiesta ST nemesis but is it really a foregone conclusion?

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If there's one thing the motoring world probably doesn't need, it's another head-to-head between the Clio Renaultsport 200 and Ford's Fiesta ST. Particularly as, just over 12 months ago, PH conducted its own shoot-out; a contest that was won, predictably, by the Fiesta. But (you knew there was a 'but' coming) it wasn't quite the anticipated whitewash - a points decision rather than a knockout - and the Ford didn't escape criticism. The ride and refinement provided cause for complaint compared to the more mature Clio and we also had our suspicions that, given time to bond with the controversial Renaultsport, there might be movement in that verdict. In fact we literally ended that test with the words 'watch this space'.

Has Fiesta turned Danny's back on Clio?

Our hunch was that these cars would deliver their thrills over very different timelines. We knew the Fiesta had a heart and a soul, but would familiarity allow us to get under the competent, sensible skin of the Clio and discover some well-buried dynamism and Va-Va-Voom?

After eight months and 11,000 miles, intimacy is not something that's lacking from my relationship with the 200. There's a comfortable familiarity to our interaction now that only comes with lots and lots of seat time in a myriad of situations. Which means, if ever there's an opportunity for the Clio to bask in a favourable light against its nemesis, this is it. I know Dan's not alone in believing the ST is at it's most alluring during those formative encounters too - so it should be a fairer contest all round. Well, let's find out...

Does the Fiesta do what the Clio should?

Having parked the two back-to-back I got my first shock. It might enjoy being labelled a pocket-rocket, but there's nothing miniature about the Fiesta. Sure, Ford has done a great job with the proportions, and out of context there's that vital resemblance to a toddler's training shoe that seems to work so well in the junior hot hatch sector. But to see that it's actually taller than the Clio is a real eye-opener. In comparison, the Clio is a bit slab-sided, lacks aggression and is too easily mistaken for its bread and butter brethren - something you can't level at the be-spoilered, be-skirted ST. However, within the subtlety of the Clio there are details to savour - in particular the athletic haunches when viewed from three-quarters - and its 'aero' addenda succeed in adding purpose without being tacky. I'd say it's a body that needs dressing in the right clothes to accentuate the restrained curves too - Mercury Silver with black wheels and the Cup chassis being the best combination I've seen.

Yep, the Fiesta's got them too

It's hard to ignore the kerb appeal of the ST though. Ford hasn't mucked around with what is a proven recipe, and it looks exactly as a hot hatch should. If I were buying on aesthetics alone, as many buyers probably do, the low-key Clio probably wouldn't even be on my radar.

Climbing inside, I'm instantly baffled by the combination of a high roofline and lofty Recaro seats that instantly undo all the semantic work of the aggressive styling. In fact, it feels vaguely reminiscent of, yet somehow worse than, the old Clio 182. A slammed to the floor, touring car-style driving position it ain't. In fact, with a helmet on, I was grazing the roof lining, and I'm only 5'10". At least the steering wheel doesn't tilt Routemaster-style, as it does in the 182...

The rest of the cabin is a somewhat unlikely mix of ostentatious trim, mood lighting and an unfathomable infotainment system pasted onto a banquet of Poundland plastics. Now I have no problem with workmanlike interiors - this is a blue-collar hot hatch, after all. But this is the fully loaded ST-3, so stacked with equipment that it only undercuts the basic Clio 200 by £500. It's enough to convince me that the only option to consider in addition to the basic ST is the Mountune one.

First impressions are where Fiesta excels

I had fully expected to fall for the Fiesta on the very first drive, but it didn't happen. The opening few days involved commuting on a mix of Surrey lanes and South London tarmac and the ST was as irritating as that little kid kicking the back of your chair on a long-haul flight. The ride was harsh and primitive, the road noise intrusive and the engine and exhaust note flat and bland. Give me the Clio any day of the week, I thought to myself.

Then, the weekend arrived and it finally began to make sense. Yes, the ride was still unruly, the driving position perched and the steering artificially heavy, but the raw, gutsy spirit of the ST bubbled to the surface. Suddenly I was revelling in the slick gearbox, the precise front end and the engine's keenness to rev. Then I turned the ESP off and found an old-school yet thoroughly predictable edge to the handling, constantly prodding you in the ribs to instigate some lift-off, wheel-cocking antics.

It's not quite the whitewash you'd expect

With appreciably less mass and greater stiffness, there's also lightness on its feet and a keenness to change direction that can't be matched by the Clio. True, it occasionally feels like it's going to bounce clean off the road on some of the bigger bumps, but this just seems to suit its manic, feral character. In the space of a single drive, the ST went from petulant and tiresome to utterly inspiring, to the extent that I ended up volunteering to do the weekly shop just for an excuse to squeeze in an extra half an hour blast around the back roads. And this particular car didn't even boast the Mountune power upgrade.

Then Monday came round again, and we were back to square one. The weekend party had been a riot, but now it was time to go back to work and it felt like we both had a stinking hangover. And therein lies the crunch. On the right road, the Fiesta is the very essence of a hot hatch. It's exactly what you want; lively, rewarding, fun. On the daily grind though, it's tiresome. The Clio is almost the exact opposite; a car that's incredibly easy to live with, but never quite hits the spot when you really want it to.

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FACT SHEET
Car: Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo EDC LUX
Run by: Danny Milner
On fleet since: April 2014
Mileage: 11,620
List price new: £21,835 (Basic list of £19,995 plus £650 for Cup Chassis, £300 for 18-inch Renaultsport wheels and Dunlop Sport Maxx RT tyres, £595 for Flame Red i.d. metallic paint, £295 for Renaultsport Monitor)
Last month at a glance: Accepted wisdom has it the Fiesta ST is the car the Clio should be - is it though? Danny borrows a Ford to find out

Previous updates:
Clio arrives on the PH Fleet; faces an uphill struggle for popular opinion
PH 'accidentally' ends up in an impromptu Clio Cup race at Spa
Danny heads to Scotland in search of the Clio's hidden depths
Found - the Clio's wild side
Clio battles its Peugeot nemesis for Danny's affection
So, the Clio wants to be grown-up and mature - is it?
Does the NISMO Juke offer the Clio salvation?
New boots for the Clio

Lead photo: Roo Fowler

[Daz172]

Wow this is getting rather tedious and outright desperate in terms of trying to make the Clio look better than it actually is.

I've done 5k in 4 months In my Fiesta ST3, so feel I can actually provide some truths.

Seating position in the Fiesta, whilst to some it may not be perfect, is nothing like a Clio 182 in terms of being so high.
'touring car-style driving position', what?.. Its a Fiesta, come on.

The ride? its a hot hatch? everybody knows by now its going to have its bumpy moments.

As a daily driver along with completing a 700mile trip one weekend, the Fiesta is perfectly comfortable and along with the heated Recaro's, I found it easy going along with my at time, SLEEPING partner in the passenger seat.

This article is pretty poor in its attempts to try get some brownie points for the un-popular Clio.

I've owned numerous Hot Renaults and have always admired previous productions, but come on, its time to accept the Fiesta IS THE BETTER CAR.

[zeppelin101]

The Fiesta might be the better car, but there is no justification for the ride quality when it is first and foremost a hatchback. Some additional stiffness in the damping etc is fine but it does not feel composed at points and it does get irritating.

I've borrowed one a number of times on various roads and for all the things that are nice about it, the one thing I cannot stand is the ride quality.

[Chicane-UK]

I just bought a Fiesta ST-2. It is a brilliant overall package no doubt but I have to say I think perhaps it was designed with a younger market in mind as I can't believe how unforgiving it is on a rough road surface.

It didn't seem particularly apparent on the test drive, and I say the Recaro seats are amazing and must be helping to absorb some of the roughness, but if you get on a rough road surface it really is enough to shake your fillings loose!

I had planned to buy the car and keep it for a good few years but I think I might have destroyed my back within a year...

Edited by Chicane-UK on Tuesday 6th January 15:30

[GrumpyTwig]

Things that the Clio desperately needs:

- More power
- An LSD
- Lower the front end by an inch (massive arch gaps)
- Sort that gopping front end
- Don't change the rear, it looks fine
- Better materials in the interior
- Drop the R-link, it sounds like no end of crashes and pain

A manual box maybe? Though I think the above might make up for any DCT complaints. More power as it IS there for them they just need to sort the mapping out and make sure the box is up to it.

I hope the 2nd phase of the Clio addresses some of the issues, or they sort the price at least...

[Sir_Dave]

I still havent seen a 200 since launch.

Renault need to pay Haymarket a bit more marketing budget i feel, this article really does read a little too much like blatant (& desperate) PR for a car that misses the spot by approx. 15 miles.

[Butter Face]

Renault have been listening to the market and I think there will be changes soon. Fingers crossed!!

[thiscocks]

That first pic is the only pic ive seen where the Clio actually looks nice. Sadly the last pic brings you back to reality.

[dukebox9reg]

Sir_Dave said:

I still havent seen a 200 since launch.

Renault need to pay Haymarket a bit more marketing budget i feel, this article really does read a little too much like blatant (& desperate) PR for a car that misses the spot by approx. 15 miles.

I've seen quite a few of them about. Not a patch of the Fiesta ST for numbers though. But on the other hand, ive seen more Clios than 208 GTI's.

[Speed_Demon]

It's strange but I've seen quite a few Fiesta STs around recently, and while to start with I quite liked the looks, I now find them quite childish (and this is coming from a 182 cup owner). Conversely, I hated how the 200T looked at launch but now I really seem to quite like the looks. Aggro, but not too aggro. Then again I haven't seen a 200T in the flesh at all (but I have seen one 208GTI!).

[madmatteo]

I've just returned by Clio 200 turbo back (on lease) and have bought a Fiesta ST. I liked the Clio in the 4k miles I did in it. It sounded good, handled well, looked ok (from certain angles) and was a rare sight on the road. However, it just couldn't compete with the Fiesta for value for money and that is what swung it for me. Plus, now that I have actually bought the car, another factor in my decision was the potential that I may have got stuck with the Clio when the time comes to sell it given how unloved (and unknown) it is.

Still I do agree that the difference between the two is nowhere near as significant as the reviews like to suggest. They both have positives and negatives but, for me, the Fiesta is a better all round fit and I for one am enjoying getting to know it. The ride is hard though so be prepared for that if looking at getting one!

[InfamousKeiran]

I ventured on Cliosport the other day and it's rather eye opening just how many old Clio owners have gone over to the Fiesta ST.

[Mouse1903]

I'd take the Fiesta every day of the week, but prefer the old Clio 200 to both. Only been a passenger in the new Fiesta ST. It's pretty damn quick and nice inside, though you notice the hard ride as a passenger. My Esseesse'd Abarth 500 gets an unfair rep for this but it's nowhere near as hard as the Fiesta which is surprising. Doesn't help the new Clio is pig ugly and looks like a shrunken mini MPV. The current Fiesta has always been a decent looking car

[Mercury00]

Oh look, PH's weekly Clio vs Fiesta article

[GreenArrow]

I think you guys (pistonheads that is) are going soft in your older age. Hot hatches that are too hyperactive with a ride described as "uncompromising"? Really?? When has it ever not been thus? Even the hallowed 205 GTI was damned as too stiff by Motor magazine back in the original 1984 road test...

I have just bought my wife the older ST which also rides on 205/40/17 rubber bands, as a replacement for her ageing and decaying 205 GTI and the ride is harsh but fair in my opinion. We are both in our mid 40s but would rather have a daily driver that puts a smile on your face than a motorised sofa...the Clio you can keep, it does nothing to inspire me and I don't think its a patch on the old 200 Cup.

[WojaWabbit]

It's telling that Renault sold tens of thousands of previous RenaultSport Clios using the '3-door, light weight body, big engine, manual box, go-kart handling' template, yet now they can't shift any in their new '5-door only, heavy body, gutless engine, DCT box, flabby handling' mould.

Ford stick to the tried and tested route and sell bucket loads.

I wonder who's going to be sacked... The Ford engineers or the Renault marketeers?

[is1]

InfamousKeiran said:

I ventured on Cliosport the other day and it's rather eye opening just how many old Clio owners have gone over to the Fiesta ST.

I noticed this too. The Golf R and the Fiesta seemed to be the "new thing".
I liked Cliosport though, really good site and really knowledgeable bunch on there (on most cars, not just Renault).
However, I agree with you. To think they have gone from the 172/182 to 197/200 to this is odd but you have to assume they know best.
Owners of previous Renaultsport models massively supported Renault events (official and independent) so it's a shame they've (or we've, I had a 182 Trophy) been abandoned somewhat.