Modifications & insurance
Discussion
Yes, I know this has been done before.
However, recently, I've been getting quotes for a modified car I was considering buying. The mods weren't particularly extensive - suspension upgrade, ARB's and stainless exhaust.
Now, I'm 35, live in a good post code, with 12 years no claims
Pretty much each modification raised the premium quoted in £100 increments in all quotes bar one and one underwriter wouldn't even quote until they knew by how much the car was lowered!
Now, firstly, even on PH, which isn't particularly renowned for it's leanings towards car modification, there's still LOTS of people talking about tweaking their cars in various ways, from balls out tuning, to gradually replacing parts with better ones. Just about every readers cars thread contains aspects of modifying the car - actually one of the things that makes readers cars so interesting. It would be interesting to see just how many *actual* standard cars there are on PH, I'm convinced not many.
A cursory search of PH on the aspect of declaring mods on insurance shows the answer to be reasonably unanimous, for obvious reasons - declare everything. If my experiences of declaring mods is anything to go by, I'm unconvinced that people are that rigid about it.
So, either I'm doing it wrong somehow or people simply don't declare every last thing they change on their cars.
Which is it?!
(can you tell I'm irked?
)
However, recently, I've been getting quotes for a modified car I was considering buying. The mods weren't particularly extensive - suspension upgrade, ARB's and stainless exhaust.
Now, I'm 35, live in a good post code, with 12 years no claims
Pretty much each modification raised the premium quoted in £100 increments in all quotes bar one and one underwriter wouldn't even quote until they knew by how much the car was lowered!
Now, firstly, even on PH, which isn't particularly renowned for it's leanings towards car modification, there's still LOTS of people talking about tweaking their cars in various ways, from balls out tuning, to gradually replacing parts with better ones. Just about every readers cars thread contains aspects of modifying the car - actually one of the things that makes readers cars so interesting. It would be interesting to see just how many *actual* standard cars there are on PH, I'm convinced not many.
A cursory search of PH on the aspect of declaring mods on insurance shows the answer to be reasonably unanimous, for obvious reasons - declare everything. If my experiences of declaring mods is anything to go by, I'm unconvinced that people are that rigid about it.
So, either I'm doing it wrong somehow or people simply don't declare every last thing they change on their cars.
Which is it?!
(can you tell I'm irked?
)Edited by TheJimi on Sunday 18th January 01:51
I've only had one modded car - it was a TVR. It had updated suspension, brakes, light clusters, etc.
I declared every modification with the insurer and they did not have much of an impact (if any) on the premium.
I think the key is to find a specialist insurer and speak to them rather than running it though the Meerkat which isn't set up for handling mods.
I declared every modification with the insurer and they did not have much of an impact (if any) on the premium.
I think the key is to find a specialist insurer and speak to them rather than running it though the Meerkat which isn't set up for handling mods.
I tend to go by the rule of if it is just a higher quality part over the OEM spec but not changed or uprated in the sense that it "improves" anything then I don't declare it.
If it does anything that improves the handling, performance or looks of the car or is not there to do the normal job of an OEM part then it gets declared.
For example, a better quality lower arm from a manufacturer other than the OEM would be a no, but Polybushes would be a yes.
If it does anything that improves the handling, performance or looks of the car or is not there to do the normal job of an OEM part then it gets declared.
For example, a better quality lower arm from a manufacturer other than the OEM would be a no, but Polybushes would be a yes.
FreeLitres said:
I think the key is to find a specialist insurer and speak to them rather than running it though the Meerkat which isn't set up for handling mods.
Pretty much this. I have a slightly modded Focus ST, (handling & performance rather than bling - polybushes, intercooler, remap), and I get it insured through a specialist. Even though the car's only slightly breathed-on I saved close to £300 on my premium over a comparison site, (I do live in London though so the premiums will never be low).Find an owner's club site for the car you want and ask on there, that's where I got the good info ref my insurer.
If you're a reasonable age (mid life crisis onwards), risk, profession and postcode then most Insurers won't add anything for limited mods (suspension, backbox etc). At the most they might charge a token amount.
What pees me off is the Admiral Group (Admiral, Bell Elephant, Diamond etc) who have a fairly comprehensive tick box page for modifications that adds on additional premiums. If you'd gone to a mainstream insurer most wouldn't charge you like Admiral and just simply note down the mods. Why do I have a grudge with Admiral? Because of their Standard Parts Replacement Clause (SPRC) which means they've charged you to cover the mods, but when a claim comes in they refuse the right to repair or replace the mod.
How does the SPRC work? Your Eurobox GTi has 16" alloys as standard. You tick the box to say that you have 20" Phat Rimz and the premium is loaded by £100. You think you are covered. Maybe. At most you have declared and not invalidated your insurance. You bury you car into a wall and the car is towed and inspected. One of your Phat Rimz is damaged beyond repair. Admiral can invoke the SPRC and say "We will only replace the standard parts. As the Eurobox GTi came as standard with 16" we will only supply a 16". Or here is £x as trade price for a 16", go and get your own Phat Rimz". Leaves a sour taste in your mouth when you think you have paid for cover.
On balance some people who have had modded cars have reported that Admiral did replace modded parts when they had their car repaired.
What pees me off is the Admiral Group (Admiral, Bell Elephant, Diamond etc) who have a fairly comprehensive tick box page for modifications that adds on additional premiums. If you'd gone to a mainstream insurer most wouldn't charge you like Admiral and just simply note down the mods. Why do I have a grudge with Admiral? Because of their Standard Parts Replacement Clause (SPRC) which means they've charged you to cover the mods, but when a claim comes in they refuse the right to repair or replace the mod.
How does the SPRC work? Your Eurobox GTi has 16" alloys as standard. You tick the box to say that you have 20" Phat Rimz and the premium is loaded by £100. You think you are covered. Maybe. At most you have declared and not invalidated your insurance. You bury you car into a wall and the car is towed and inspected. One of your Phat Rimz is damaged beyond repair. Admiral can invoke the SPRC and say "We will only replace the standard parts. As the Eurobox GTi came as standard with 16" we will only supply a 16". Or here is £x as trade price for a 16", go and get your own Phat Rimz". Leaves a sour taste in your mouth when you think you have paid for cover.
On balance some people who have had modded cars have reported that Admiral did replace modded parts when they had their car repaired.
OP, what is the car and what insurance companies have you tried?
I'm 28, 4 yrs NCB in use on this particular car, good postcode, clean licence, and with Adrian Flux, it's actually cheaper to insure my modified car than it was to cover it as a standard vehicle.
106 S1, with a 2003 Saxo VTS engine, 4 stud conversion, disc read axle, suspension changes, ARBS, seats, harnesses, exhaust etc, wheels and tyres all declared, so fairly major mods.
My renewal has just landed, £240. Well worth a look for a specialist policy. I've also used Brentacre before, they're excellent.
I'm 28, 4 yrs NCB in use on this particular car, good postcode, clean licence, and with Adrian Flux, it's actually cheaper to insure my modified car than it was to cover it as a standard vehicle.
106 S1, with a 2003 Saxo VTS engine, 4 stud conversion, disc read axle, suspension changes, ARBS, seats, harnesses, exhaust etc, wheels and tyres all declared, so fairly major mods.
My renewal has just landed, £240. Well worth a look for a specialist policy. I've also used Brentacre before, they're excellent.
I have a BMW performance exhaust and intake and aero spoiler.
Upon renewal recently (with a decent specialist) the question of mods was asked.
Obviously they went to tick the mods box but I stopped them when she said "ok, so that's aftermarket..." I said "no these are original BMW parts supplied and fitted by a main BMW dealer". She probed a little but settled on just making a note on the policy.
No change to premium.
Upon renewal recently (with a decent specialist) the question of mods was asked.
Obviously they went to tick the mods box but I stopped them when she said "ok, so that's aftermarket..." I said "no these are original BMW parts supplied and fitted by a main BMW dealer". She probed a little but settled on just making a note on the policy.
No change to premium.
Vikingaero, I'm surprised at your post.. Admiral Group make it very clear that their policies will only cover standard replacement parts, as indeed do almost all mainstream insurers and certainly all that I've spoken to. I thought we all knew that, with the exception of specialists or agreed-value policies, we are paying an additional premium because of a slightly higher perceived risk.
I've found modifications very reasonable to declare with Admiral anyway. I'm 23, and things like coilovers, intake and exhaust changes and brake upgrades only have an impact of about £40 in total. It would become very difficult on fitting a rollcage, though - most insurers baulk at that.
I've found modifications very reasonable to declare with Admiral anyway. I'm 23, and things like coilovers, intake and exhaust changes and brake upgrades only have an impact of about £40 in total. It would become very difficult on fitting a rollcage, though - most insurers baulk at that.
McSam said:
Vikingaero, I'm surprised at your post.. Admiral Group make it very clear that their policies will only cover standard replacement parts, as indeed do almost all mainstream insurers and certainly all that I've spoken to. I thought we all knew that, with the exception of specialists or agreed-value policies, we are paying an additional premium because of a slightly higher perceived risk.
I've found modifications very reasonable to declare with Admiral anyway. I'm 23, and things like coilovers, intake and exhaust changes and brake upgrades only have an impact of about £40 in total. It would become very difficult on fitting a rollcage, though - most insurers baulk at that.
Agreed. As long as they make it clear what they are covering, then there is no issue. The increased cost is due to the increased risk of it being stolen, or being in an accident based on their data.I've found modifications very reasonable to declare with Admiral anyway. I'm 23, and things like coilovers, intake and exhaust changes and brake upgrades only have an impact of about £40 in total. It would become very difficult on fitting a rollcage, though - most insurers baulk at that.
If you want like for like replacement of parts then go to an insurer that covers that. There are insurers who will agree values on moded cars if you want.
This is PH, the forum where people will fight to be the first to criticise someone who's been caught doing 35 in a 30. So somehow I think putting up a reader's car thread saying "yeah this is my new Impreza, running 450BHP right now but I haven't told my insurance cos it'll be well expensive innit" wouldn't go down too well.
I'm sure a lot of people here do declare their mods, and I'm sure some people don't. It's just that those who don't aren't stupid enough to brag about it.
I'm sure a lot of people here do declare their mods, and I'm sure some people don't. It's just that those who don't aren't stupid enough to brag about it.
TheJimi said:
A cursory search of PH on the aspect of declaring mods on insurance shows the answer to be reasonably unanimous, for obvious reasons - declare everything. If my experiences of declaring mods is anything to go by, I'm unconvinced that people are that rigid about it.
So, either I'm doing it wrong somehow or people simply don't declare every last thing they change on their cars.
Which is it?!
(can you tell I'm irked? )
They use modifications friendly insurance brokers (or at least I do). With all mods declared I pay £400. I had no increase in premium when declaring new mods, even my R8 wing mirrors. Greenlight, Brentacre and others are good to talk to. Forget the meerkats of this world.So, either I'm doing it wrong somehow or people simply don't declare every last thing they change on their cars.
Which is it?!
(can you tell I'm irked?
)Edited by TheJimi on Sunday 18th January 01:51
My gut feel is that a lot of people do not declare mods and a lot of those people get away with it without incident.
For me though, I felt exposed to a situation where a serious accident could occur and the insurers would assess the car, spot the mods and wash their hands of me.
Worst case scenario, but what if you caused some life changing injuries to another driver and your insurer decides you are not covered because of undeclared mods?
For me though, I felt exposed to a situation where a serious accident could occur and the insurers would assess the car, spot the mods and wash their hands of me.
Worst case scenario, but what if you caused some life changing injuries to another driver and your insurer decides you are not covered because of undeclared mods?
Escy said:
FreeLitres said:
spot the mods and wash their hands of me.
Doesn't happen in my experience. (i'm sure there are cases where it does happen but they are probably the exception rather than the rule)I have not been through a situation like this, but I wasn't prepared to discover what might happen. Just my 2p worth.
I have BMW e91 lowered on coilovers m sport kit and interior and 19" wheels
All declared through Adrian flux for £550.
Everytime you phone and add a modification they may put it up but phone for them all done and it's not really issue.
Are you using mainstream insurers or modified ones like AF Herts and sky?
All declared through Adrian flux for £550.
Everytime you phone and add a modification they may put it up but phone for them all done and it's not really issue.
Are you using mainstream insurers or modified ones like AF Herts and sky?
How would you insure say, an Evo, that has two pages worth of modifications? I went to a Mitsubishi dealer a few years to look at a £20K Evo that they had for sale. Upon examining the paperwork, there were two pages of modifications, so I walked away thinking about the pain of having to insure such a car.
I've also seen many ads on PH with a huge list of mods.
So, how would you get such a car insured? For many of the mods, I would have no idea whether the need to be declared or not.
I've also seen many ads on PH with a huge list of mods.
So, how would you get such a car insured? For many of the mods, I would have no idea whether the need to be declared or not.
McSam said:
Vikingaero, I'm surprised at your post.. Admiral Group make it very clear that their policies will only cover standard replacement parts, as indeed do almost all mainstream insurers and certainly all that I've spoken to. I thought we all knew that, with the exception of specialists or agreed-value policies, we are paying an additional premium because of a slightly higher perceived risk.
I've found modifications very reasonable to declare with Admiral anyway. I'm 23, and things like coilovers, intake and exhaust changes and brake upgrades only have an impact of about £40 in total. It would become very difficult on fitting a rollcage, though - most insurers baulk at that.
This matches my experience with Admiral; admittedly I am in a nightmare postcode, perhaps that outweighs the mods I've found modifications very reasonable to declare with Admiral anyway. I'm 23, and things like coilovers, intake and exhaust changes and brake upgrades only have an impact of about £40 in total. It would become very difficult on fitting a rollcage, though - most insurers baulk at that.
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