Age/Mileage - Does it really matter any more?
Discussion
Currently have a 2011 car and I'm considering changing and have found that a combination of either a single year and/or a few thousand miles can make a huge difference in price on what I'm looking at.
Is it just a UK thing that we're now conditioned to think that a 2009 car is "old" and 80k is a lot of miles for a modern car?
Can't help but think I'm being stupid and should simply go off condition - car is Lexus RX which should be bombproof anyway.
I get there's a point where you can be stupid i.e. Merc CL500's that are a "bargain" because they've lost £60K
Is it just a UK thing that we're now conditioned to think that a 2009 car is "old" and 80k is a lot of miles for a modern car?
Can't help but think I'm being stupid and should simply go off condition - car is Lexus RX which should be bombproof anyway.
I get there's a point where you can be stupid i.e. Merc CL500's that are a "bargain" because they've lost £60K
It's really odd, I used to buy anything I liked irrespective of age or mileage - I wasn't too keen on stuff with 150 000 plus on the clock but anything below that was 'fair game'.
Now, I'm dreadful and want the lowest mileage I can get - my current car has just clocked over 8000 miles in three years and I was thinking about getting rid and having another new one! I have managed to talk myself out of that now as even I accept that it would be ridiculous spending 20K in something else that would be of no appreciable improvement.
Now, I'm dreadful and want the lowest mileage I can get - my current car has just clocked over 8000 miles in three years and I was thinking about getting rid and having another new one! I have managed to talk myself out of that now as even I accept that it would be ridiculous spending 20K in something else that would be of no appreciable improvement.
I think age makes a car feel tired more than mileage.
I have been in a 525i with 234k miles on it that felt like new, but it was less than 3 years old.
I tried a few sub 60k mile E61s last year that were 10 years old nearly and they all felt tired, just a bit crashy suspension wise, but this is what you feel through the steering wheel.
I think the problem is a vicious circle in the UK, because we have a fear or 100k miles and prices drop people tend to then not spend proper money on them. Why spend £2000 on suspension and bushes on a car worth £5k? In Europe that car might still be worth £12,000, and then spending that sort of money makes more sense.
I bought an 02 plate ML 2 years ago off someone on the forum while deciding what to get next as I had just let my E Class go.
The idea was drive it for a few weeks and then decide what to do.
In that time I did the following......
New bushes.
New Bilstein suspension.
New stats
New EGR and bypassed.
Injectors reconditioned
New oil separator
New manifold with flaps blanked
New Merc mats (£120)
New electronic plate and valve body for the tranmission.
Tranmission flush with new fllters (done twice at £200 a go)
New transmission electrical connector (they start to leak and can cause issues)
New wheels with Dunlop EfficientGrip Tyres all round.
Also put in an Alpine W925r Double din Nav unit with Dab and a 4 channel amp and Morel speakers (£1600).
If you add that lot up it comes to more than £2500 worth of work, then wheels and stereo on a car I have just agreed to sell for.........£3500.
It is 13 years old and has 118k on it.
How many people out there do all the above on a car that cost them £3500? My guess is not many in the UK.
However, in Europe where that car is still selling for €12,000 they tend to look after them better.
I have been in a 525i with 234k miles on it that felt like new, but it was less than 3 years old.
I tried a few sub 60k mile E61s last year that were 10 years old nearly and they all felt tired, just a bit crashy suspension wise, but this is what you feel through the steering wheel.
I think the problem is a vicious circle in the UK, because we have a fear or 100k miles and prices drop people tend to then not spend proper money on them. Why spend £2000 on suspension and bushes on a car worth £5k? In Europe that car might still be worth £12,000, and then spending that sort of money makes more sense.
I bought an 02 plate ML 2 years ago off someone on the forum while deciding what to get next as I had just let my E Class go.
The idea was drive it for a few weeks and then decide what to do.
In that time I did the following......
New bushes.
New Bilstein suspension.
New stats
New EGR and bypassed.
Injectors reconditioned
New oil separator
New manifold with flaps blanked
New Merc mats (£120)
New electronic plate and valve body for the tranmission.
Tranmission flush with new fllters (done twice at £200 a go)
New transmission electrical connector (they start to leak and can cause issues)
New wheels with Dunlop EfficientGrip Tyres all round.
Also put in an Alpine W925r Double din Nav unit with Dab and a 4 channel amp and Morel speakers (£1600).
If you add that lot up it comes to more than £2500 worth of work, then wheels and stereo on a car I have just agreed to sell for.........£3500.
It is 13 years old and has 118k on it.
How many people out there do all the above on a car that cost them £3500? My guess is not many in the UK.
However, in Europe where that car is still selling for €12,000 they tend to look after them better.
Indeed, in the 'sell your car here' hall at RS Fest (the main Dutch Porsche meeting) someone brought an early-ish RHD Boxster from the UK for a price that looked very attractive (5.900 euro where a nice LHD Boxster makes 12,000 or more any day of the week) - if you didn't look too closely, that is. Up close, it looked very tired, shoddy paintwork, rough interior, budget tyres on all four corners etc. Being somewhat familiar with the UK market, I thought it was a fair example of an 'average' UK-reg car of that age, but it looked rather misplaced in the presence of a myriad of Dutch- and German-registered Boxsters and 996es that all looked well maintained if not pristine, had paint that was professionally done where not Original, Michelin/Bridgestone/etc tyres of the correct spec etc.
Then you realise that an early Boxster like that is a £3K car in the UK market...
Then you realise that an early Boxster like that is a £3K car in the UK market...
Yet some diesels now need a new dual mass flywheel at 80k.
Some modern cars seem more stressed than a typical 90's car.
Prime examples I have owned have been toyotal 3sgte and 4age engined cars performing well at 100k miles despite the reasonably high performance spec, while a 2.0 hdi was knackered at 80k.
Also suspension on a 2003 polo needed new console bushes at 40k miles ffs !
Some modern cars seem more stressed than a typical 90's car.
Prime examples I have owned have been toyotal 3sgte and 4age engined cars performing well at 100k miles despite the reasonably high performance spec, while a 2.0 hdi was knackered at 80k.
Also suspension on a 2003 polo needed new console bushes at 40k miles ffs !
All comes down to how well its looked after.
As I'm the 2nd owner and have put nearly 100k miles on it, I'm reasonably confident that everything that needs to be done to keep it fresh has been done.
Whereas my mrs' dad bought a car on 100k miles, has put 30k miles on and is getting twitchy about servicing costs and longevity as he doesn't know the full history.
I'd be more than happy buying a high mile car if it had a full and detailed service history tbh.
As I'm the 2nd owner and have put nearly 100k miles on it, I'm reasonably confident that everything that needs to be done to keep it fresh has been done.
Whereas my mrs' dad bought a car on 100k miles, has put 30k miles on and is getting twitchy about servicing costs and longevity as he doesn't know the full history.
I'd be more than happy buying a high mile car if it had a full and detailed service history tbh.
At the moment, I'm seeing very few affordable new cars that I'd actually want to own but plenty of older ones.
The way I see it, if it's an older car you want, take advantage of the UK's low residuals but budget to restore it. You'll still probably spend less than if you bought it in another country and even if you spend an extra few grand on top of the purchase price, you're still probably still quids-in compared to the depreciation on a new motor.
The way I see it, if it's an older car you want, take advantage of the UK's low residuals but budget to restore it. You'll still probably spend less than if you bought it in another country and even if you spend an extra few grand on top of the purchase price, you're still probably still quids-in compared to the depreciation on a new motor.
BoRED S2upid said:
Who thinks a 2009 car is old and 80k is a lot of miles? I think your on your own there OP buy what you want not what other people think you should have.
I'd quite like a newer car, but as mentioned by someone else, its affordability. My own 15 and a half year old car has 128k miles on it now. Mileage doesnt worry me, though if buying I'd like to buy something with less than 120k on it but only because I am going to be putting a fair few on myself.I will always buy on condition now bought our current daily a 2008 325d m sport with a 110k now 2.5 years later has 140k on it and it has been faultless car is immaculate and was one lady owner full bmw history I don't think anyone had ever sat in the back probaly spent it's hole life on the motorway.
So for me age is much more of an issue as I would no longer be scared of high miles as long as the car has been driven and serviced correctly
So for me age is much more of an issue as I would no longer be scared of high miles as long as the car has been driven and serviced correctly
Clivey said:
At the moment, I'm seeing very few affordable new cars that I'd actually want to own but plenty of older ones.
The way I see it, if it's an older car you want, take advantage of the UK's low residuals but budget to restore it. You'll still probably spend less than if you bought it in another country and even if you spend an extra few grand on top of the purchase price, you're still probably still quids-in compared to the depreciation on a new motor.
I agree. The way I see it, if it's an older car you want, take advantage of the UK's low residuals but budget to restore it. You'll still probably spend less than if you bought it in another country and even if you spend an extra few grand on top of the purchase price, you're still probably still quids-in compared to the depreciation on a new motor.
Not many things out there I want, not that I can afford anyway.
Many things at play here, including the old thing of 100k that so many of us cling to. Thing is I worry what I might buy in another few years as there's nothing around that I will want. I believe that cars passed a kind of reliability threshold a few years ago due to their complexity and hence the expense of repair.
For example I need a more economical car for my new longer commute. I could probably afford 5-10k perhaps, but I see no point. I might as well find a decent-ish 1.9 tdi VAG vehicle from circa 2004 for <2k and drive it into the ground. Sure its not glamorous but it will be hugely cheaper.
For example I need a more economical car for my new longer commute. I could probably afford 5-10k perhaps, but I see no point. I might as well find a decent-ish 1.9 tdi VAG vehicle from circa 2004 for <2k and drive it into the ground. Sure its not glamorous but it will be hugely cheaper.
Rovinghawk said:
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Currently have a 2011 car and I'm considering changing
Is it too old for you? If so then yes, age does seem to matter.As much as I say I'd like to buy 'on condition' rather than mileage, I still cannot bring myself to look at anything nearing £100k miles. I know this is completely irrational and to own the cars I want to own I'm going to have to own a high miler at some point.
A wallet full of receipts and decent paintwork what I like to see.
A wallet full of receipts and decent paintwork what I like to see.
Honestly? nope, I still think anything built after 2000 is new. I'll generally buy on condition preferably with newer cars hopefully coming with receipts for work done/parts fitted service history, etc... though I'll happily admit that the 159 ('09 plate) is probably the newest car I'll buy for quite some time (it's replacement, hopefully sometime this year, will either come on a '96 plate or a '06 plate depending on price and condition).
We are conditioned to expect cars to fail at 5-6 years old and/or 100,000 miles. Cars from the 60's, 70's and early 80's, particularly the mainstream stuff just disintegrated. Now we either grew up through this period (me unfortunately) or your parents did. Then you add in the relatively cheap cost of a new car, particularly if you add in all thos personal lease plans etc. and lastly think about modern cars, their very hard to work on yourself so people don't. Lots of people I know haven't a clue about cars but they know how old it is and that's what matters to them. I have one brother who does all his own spannering and only buys 10-15 year old VAG stuff generally which he's picked up for peanuts. My other brother is 3 year old rule all the way, convinced car trouble will ensue beyond this. Me, I like to change frequently. I don't mind old or high mileage and I'm not overly fussed by service history. If the price is good and the car drives ok go for it.
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