Company cars a bit rubbish or very expensive
Discussion
The Mrs qualifies for a company car - status rather than essential use - but she likes her 350Z and has in the past taken the allowance. She has now decided she wants the shiny-shiny thing and registered her interest. So tonight we had a look at what her options were. Her allowance appears to get her a diesel s
tbox and a tax bill. She has the option of choosing anything from the list and making a contribution, but it's eye-wateringly expensive (perhaps because they're all based on 20k a year - she does nothing like that). They're all diesel, for a start, and she doesn't want anything slower than her Nissan. Which basically leaves the only thing of any interest a 435D at a net cost of about £800 a month. Screw that. It would appear that you can lease one privately for 10k pa for about £500.
Looks like she's going to continue to take the allowance, but now she really fancies something new or nearly so. I suspect she's going to end up in three year PCP or lease deal, probably in a 4 or 2 series, though there are no restrictions on car type. Anyone know any good deals for interesting metal at around 500/mo?
tbox and a tax bill. She has the option of choosing anything from the list and making a contribution, but it's eye-wateringly expensive (perhaps because they're all based on 20k a year - she does nothing like that). They're all diesel, for a start, and she doesn't want anything slower than her Nissan. Which basically leaves the only thing of any interest a 435D at a net cost of about £800 a month. Screw that. It would appear that you can lease one privately for 10k pa for about £500. Looks like she's going to continue to take the allowance, but now she really fancies something new or nearly so. I suspect she's going to end up in three year PCP or lease deal, probably in a 4 or 2 series, though there are no restrictions on car type. Anyone know any good deals for interesting metal at around 500/mo?
For comparison, and hopefully inspiration, I bought an 18 month old 911 C4S in '05. Kept it for 8 years.
Total running costs came out at around £600pm across that time. Including depreciation, insurance, road tax, servicing (I serviced it at OPC for first 5 years and then an independent every year). Then sold it. Did about 40,000 very enjoyable miles in it and would've kept it longer if I had a garage.
Total running costs came out at around £600pm across that time. Including depreciation, insurance, road tax, servicing (I serviced it at OPC for first 5 years and then an independent every year). Then sold it. Did about 40,000 very enjoyable miles in it and would've kept it longer if I had a garage.
swerni said:
Unless you're doing massive miles, I don't see why anyone woukd take a company car.
I've alwsys just stuck with the allowance
The only thing I could make work financially was a plug in Prius. Basically a new insured maintained car on your drive for nothing (might attract some tax in a couple of years). I've alwsys just stuck with the allowance
I bought a v8.
I did the company car thing once... thought i wanted a new 5 series.
Anyway... lesson i learnt was never again!
I lost my car allowance (approx £6k) and then had to pay BIK on the 5 series. Glad i changed jobs as car was really starting to drain my finances!
Id take the allowance and go get a good maintained leasedeal if i was ever in the position of needing one again.
Anyway... lesson i learnt was never again!
I lost my car allowance (approx £6k) and then had to pay BIK on the 5 series. Glad i changed jobs as car was really starting to drain my finances!
Id take the allowance and go get a good maintained leasedeal if i was ever in the position of needing one again.
BritishRacinGrin said:
Does she really want a new car or did she just get the idea in her head due to the company car offer and forget that she really likes her 350z?
She still likes the Z, but it's a ten year old car and she's owned it for five years. I think she fancies a change, wants something new or nearly so with a nice interior and modern toys, and quite likes the idea of no hassle and a change every three years. If she didn't have petrolhead tendencies I'm sure she would be happy with something off the list, but it's a very expensive way of getting anything interesting. I've never had a company car, never done enough mileage, so perhaps that'swhy I can't work out how the system operates. It seems that a personal lease is about £550 per month or BIK is about £400 per month for the 435d. So you are out of pocket with the company car if your allowance or difference between mileage allowance and running costs is more than £150 per month, or have I got the sums wrong? Or is it different lower down the food chain?
Justin Case said:
I've never had a company car, never done enough mileage, so perhaps that'swhy I can't work out how the system operates. It seems that a personal lease is about £550 per month or BIK is about £400 per month for the 435d. So you are out of pocket with the company car if your allowance or difference between mileage allowance and running costs is more than £150 per month, or have I got the sums wrong? Or is it different lower down the food chain?
The way the system works at her place is that she has the option of a cash allowance, which she pays 40% on and gets about £230 to take home. If she takes something that uses all of her allowance, she gets a car and a tax bill. If she takes something which takes less than it, she gets a car, the balance of the allowance, and a smaller tax bill. If she upgrades to something better, she gets the car, the same tax bill, and a deduction from taxed income to pay for the upgrade. Obviously the cost includes VED, insurance and maintenance, but still, it looks expensive. Now having a conversation around what we could do to the house with the money instead if she defers changing cars - isn't it supposed to be the wife putting that argument to me, not vice-versa?
swerni said:
Unless you're doing massive miles, I don't see why anyone woukd take a company car.
I've alwsys just stuck with the allowance
Because if you are prepared to drive a boring car, it's just brilliant. I've alwsys just stuck with the allowance
My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
If you are a lower rate tax payer and there is no cash alternative on the table, a company car is a good thing, I had a new golf 2.0tdi in 2004 and put 30k miles a year on it, most of them personal.
When you get to 40% and cash alternatives it's very rarely worth it to sacrifice the cash and foot the extra tax
When you get to 40% and cash alternatives it's very rarely worth it to sacrifice the cash and foot the extra tax
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Because if you are prepared to drive a boring car, it's just brilliant.
My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
But if you have the option of an allowance instead, the net cost is £85 plus forfeited allowance per month. Which probably still doesn't work out too badly in your circumstances, I guess.My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
swerni said:
Unless you're doing massive miles, I don't see why anyone woukd take a company car.
I've alwsys just stuck with the allowance
Because if you are prepared to drive a boring car, it's just brilliant. I've alwsys just stuck with the allowance
My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
If so, add the net value of that to your £85 to get the true cost of your car.
I am eligible for a co car and looked at the options for about 11 seconds before I realised what a crap deal it was. I'd end up paying far more for a soulless diesel ecobox.
More money, worse car.
At my last place of work one of the managers was taking the piss out of my choice saying how much my Jag would have been costing me (I paid £2k for it, it's not depreicating, I pocketed the car allowance each month which more than offset the 26mpg I was getting).
She spunked her entire car allowance on a 118d, paid extra for the BIK tax and after 12 months the gearbox shat itself twice. I've since done a trouble free 75k miles. Ha bloody ha.
More money, worse car.
At my last place of work one of the managers was taking the piss out of my choice saying how much my Jag would have been costing me (I paid £2k for it, it's not depreicating, I pocketed the car allowance each month which more than offset the 26mpg I was getting).
She spunked her entire car allowance on a 118d, paid extra for the BIK tax and after 12 months the gearbox shat itself twice. I've since done a trouble free 75k miles. Ha bloody ha.
What about she waits for the new mustang to come out?
People get pissed off at me at work as I drive a top of the range diesel merc which costs me significantly less than the mondeos that everyone else drives due to the tax they pay (I don't do the mileage they do, but the majority of their mileage is work related), im on a lower pay grade aswell hence no company car, I have the same car as my departments new director (but mine is a couple of years older) but his is a company car and a lower spec, he was a tad miffed when he found out...
People get pissed off at me at work as I drive a top of the range diesel merc which costs me significantly less than the mondeos that everyone else drives due to the tax they pay (I don't do the mileage they do, but the majority of their mileage is work related), im on a lower pay grade aswell hence no company car, I have the same car as my departments new director (but mine is a couple of years older) but his is a company car and a lower spec, he was a tad miffed when he found out...
Edited by Foliage on Friday 23 January 10:07
otolith said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Because if you are prepared to drive a boring car, it's just brilliant.
My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
But if you have the option of an allowance instead, the net cost is £85 plus forfeited allowance per month. Which probably still doesn't work out too badly in your circumstances, I guess.My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
I have a small opt out allowance of £3600/year including personal fuel (i do 0 business miles thanks to a TUPE) so that's £300 per month before tax is taken away. Lets take the tax away and add another £100 to cover BIK losses i have so its still pretty much £300/month.
not a lot of money, i could not get the same deal privately on a comparable new car withouta massive dowwnpayment(Octavia Estate 1.6d SE) even before i take fuel into account. Most people wont have a fully expensed vehicle or such a pityful opt out.
Its different for everyone, if i was doing business miles i could profit from those but the balancing act takes good kick when you get a flat and need to pay out £100 for a new tire or hire a another car/take train when yours breaks down.
All a bit Faustian really, 350Z or diesel german thing, £800 a month to run something is a fast version compared to the 350Z that cost very little, they dont seem to depreciate much now, they dont cost much to service and insurance generally cheap, there is no tax implication and even though they are expensive to fuel, it isnt like the diesel things are free.
I know what will happen, all the excitement of the new car, getting it delivered, fiddling with it, showing it off and then, one morning she will get in it and realise the enormity of what she has done, when she starts and it doesnt go Whump, grrrrrrrrr and it goes dagagagagagaagagagagaa instead, no crackly overrun and no tingly gearknob.
I know what will happen, all the excitement of the new car, getting it delivered, fiddling with it, showing it off and then, one morning she will get in it and realise the enormity of what she has done, when she starts and it doesnt go Whump, grrrrrrrrr and it goes dagagagagagaagagagagaa instead, no crackly overrun and no tingly gearknob.
otolith said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Because if you are prepared to drive a boring car, it's just brilliant.
My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
But if you have the option of an allowance instead, the net cost is £85 plus forfeited allowance per month. Which probably still doesn't work out too badly in your circumstances, I guess.My £19K Seat Leon Ecomotive costs me about £85/month in BIK as a 40% tax payer. If I was a 20% tax payer, it would cost me half that. That includes everything apart from private fuel. Company fleet insurance includes my 2 teenage sons as drivers. Do you know how much it costs to insurer teenage drivers on a personal policy?
If you can tell me how I could buy a £20K car, taxed, insured with 2 young drivers, serviced, in London, for £85/month, I'd be very interested to know. Even if I didn't have the kids it would still be a bargain.
And another thing is that a company car, be it good or bad value, is a fixed cost. I know what it will cost each month, for years in advance. Your own car never is.
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