UK drivers - where do some people learn to drive?
Discussion
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant! I've lived abroad for several years now. Whilst home over Christmas I used a hire car*. Even by the pishy standards of driving in Australia and the US, I've been amazed by how aggressive some drivers in the UK are. The worst offenders seem to be youngish women in either small, newish, city cars or large SUVs. With the treacherous conditions over the last couple of weeks and the £1000 excess on the hire car, I was driving very carefully! I'd rather not have driven at all in these conditions, but I'm fairly experienced at driving on snow/ice (before I left the UK I used to drive from Central Scotland up north for skiing any weekend there was snow) and had limited time to see all my family and friends.
My experiences left me with a question - Do people just not understand basic physics, or are they given too much confidence by all the electronic trickery in more modern cars? I'll cite the two most egregious examples for discussion:
1) Driving in the snow on a busy side road that hadn't been gritted, so was essentially snow compressed and polished into ice. A woman in her late 20s/early 30s in an A Class was sitting so close behind me that I couldn't see her bonnet in any of my mirrors. The road slopes downhill on a progressively increasing gradient with a T junction at the bottom. I slowed down to about 10mph as I reached the hill, and got full beam flashes, horn on, gesticulations over the steering wheel etc. all the way to the bottom. Stopped at the Give Way, got out, and asked her what the problem was. Received a 4 letter peppered reply before she drove round me, exited the (near blind) T junction on the wrong side of the road, slid straight across the main road (steering on full lock, ABS hammering away) and bounced off the raised kerb on the other side.
2) Driving along an A road in the snow. The road has quite a large dip in it, then a long gentle climb. Visibility reasonable, nothing coming the other way. RR in front of me rides the brakes all the way down slowing to walking pace at the bottom of the dip. Momentum is everything when driving a 2WD car in the snow, so I keep my speed up (we're talking all of about 20/25mph here) and overtake her whilst she's still braking. She sees me, and puts her foot down, as though trying to block me on the wrong side of the road. RR starts sliding about a bit, and I'm forced to back off and cut in behind her. At which point she stops. On a slope. In the snow. She sits in the car, on the phone. I get out and knock on her window. Am told that I'm a dangerous driver for trying to overtake, and am an idiot to drive anything other than a 4x4 in these conditions. Her RR is on 20" rims with low-profile road tyres. She says she's calling the police and puts the window back up. I roll back down the slope, reverse up the other side and then use my momentum to get up the hill, overtaking Mrs leather-face as I go.
Does anybody else find this quite remarkable? Or is it just culture-shock after returning from sunnier climes?
My experiences left me with a question - Do people just not understand basic physics, or are they given too much confidence by all the electronic trickery in more modern cars? I'll cite the two most egregious examples for discussion:
1) Driving in the snow on a busy side road that hadn't been gritted, so was essentially snow compressed and polished into ice. A woman in her late 20s/early 30s in an A Class was sitting so close behind me that I couldn't see her bonnet in any of my mirrors. The road slopes downhill on a progressively increasing gradient with a T junction at the bottom. I slowed down to about 10mph as I reached the hill, and got full beam flashes, horn on, gesticulations over the steering wheel etc. all the way to the bottom. Stopped at the Give Way, got out, and asked her what the problem was. Received a 4 letter peppered reply before she drove round me, exited the (near blind) T junction on the wrong side of the road, slid straight across the main road (steering on full lock, ABS hammering away) and bounced off the raised kerb on the other side.
2) Driving along an A road in the snow. The road has quite a large dip in it, then a long gentle climb. Visibility reasonable, nothing coming the other way. RR in front of me rides the brakes all the way down slowing to walking pace at the bottom of the dip. Momentum is everything when driving a 2WD car in the snow, so I keep my speed up (we're talking all of about 20/25mph here) and overtake her whilst she's still braking. She sees me, and puts her foot down, as though trying to block me on the wrong side of the road. RR starts sliding about a bit, and I'm forced to back off and cut in behind her. At which point she stops. On a slope. In the snow. She sits in the car, on the phone. I get out and knock on her window. Am told that I'm a dangerous driver for trying to overtake, and am an idiot to drive anything other than a 4x4 in these conditions. Her RR is on 20" rims with low-profile road tyres. She says she's calling the police and puts the window back up. I roll back down the slope, reverse up the other side and then use my momentum to get up the hill, overtaking Mrs leather-face as I go.
Does anybody else find this quite remarkable? Or is it just culture-shock after returning from sunnier climes?
- Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 - from road noise to ergonomics to fuel economy, it was dire in just about every respect.
So you were holding up the lady in the A class, and the lady in the RR was holding you up. A sort of role reversal scenario.
How would you have reacted if the lady in the A class had tried to overtake you?
You need to be careful if you get out of your car for confrontation every time something happens, we are very aggressive over here, or was it because they were only female?
How would you have reacted if the lady in the A class had tried to overtake you?
You need to be careful if you get out of your car for confrontation every time something happens, we are very aggressive over here, or was it because they were only female?
Edited by Monkeylegend on Saturday 24th January 15:35
Personal experience of the states tells me they can't drive either. And various news items recently indicate that snow is a hazard there too.
You see regional differences in all countries; in the US you'll most drivers waft aimlessly in the same lane, move to the urban environments and people get faster and more aggressive (i'm thinking Boston where my in-laws live, definitely confidence over competence).
Sunnier climes? try driving in Portugal after it's rained. Carnage, not helped by the fact most of their cars don't have stability control yet.
I do agree about (younger) British females though, it is true you often find them on your rear bumper with a glazed, distant look on their face.
You see regional differences in all countries; in the US you'll most drivers waft aimlessly in the same lane, move to the urban environments and people get faster and more aggressive (i'm thinking Boston where my in-laws live, definitely confidence over competence).
Sunnier climes? try driving in Portugal after it's rained. Carnage, not helped by the fact most of their cars don't have stability control yet.
I do agree about (younger) British females though, it is true you often find them on your rear bumper with a glazed, distant look on their face.
Monkeylegend said:
So you were holding up the lady in the A class, and the lady in the RR was holding you up. A sort of role reversal scenario.
How would you have reacted if the lady in the A class had tried to overtake you?
I'd have watched her head-on another car whilst on the wrong side of the road, failing which bury it in a wall on the other side of the T junction. How would you have reacted if the lady in the A class had tried to overtake you?
My point isn't about 'holding up' people, it's about driving to the conditions and understanding things like stopping distances and reaction times: Call me crazy, but I find being threatened with the police/abused by somebody who's driving like a complete t
t to be slightly odd. Monkeylegend said:
You need to be careful if you get out of your car for confrontation every time something happens, we are very aggressive over here, or was it because they were only female?
I'd agree with your advice on getting out of the car, even if I've not been very good at following it 
The reason I got out for the woman in the RR was because I thought she might be stuck/in trouble (I carry a bag of sand/cat litter, shovel, rope, and all the other gubbins with me when driving in the snow so I don't get stuck and can help others who have got stuck). The A Class driver, on the other hand, I really just wanted to see if she'd still be as aggressive when she didn't have the 'my car is bigger than yours' thing going on. Turns out she was.
Coming over the Pennines on the M62 last week it was blowing a proper blizzard
Lane 1 had slush on, lane 2 had more slush/snow , lane 3 was just white about 2" deep
We're all doing 40mph in 1&2 when this freelander behind me suddenly pulls out in lane 3 and starts overtaking at 50mph
I'm guessing she read somewhere that a 4x4 is made for snow, what she hadn't read is it makes no difference when you brake, she touched them got some sideways movement, bricked it and came back into lane 2
In 2010 just before the saddleworth turn westbound it was the worst I'd ever seen it , snow freezing as soon as it hit the road 20mph tops
In front of me was a guy in a sprinter towing an empty trailer , as we got to the saddleworth turning his indicator came on , I looked in total disbelief as he turned onto the slip road which was a good 6" deep
I watched him gingerly drive down until he got to the bottom wher he jackknifed , what was going through his mind I have no idea, did he really think he stood a chance of getting up the hill after the junction
Lane 1 had slush on, lane 2 had more slush/snow , lane 3 was just white about 2" deep
We're all doing 40mph in 1&2 when this freelander behind me suddenly pulls out in lane 3 and starts overtaking at 50mph
I'm guessing she read somewhere that a 4x4 is made for snow, what she hadn't read is it makes no difference when you brake, she touched them got some sideways movement, bricked it and came back into lane 2
In 2010 just before the saddleworth turn westbound it was the worst I'd ever seen it , snow freezing as soon as it hit the road 20mph tops
In front of me was a guy in a sprinter towing an empty trailer , as we got to the saddleworth turning his indicator came on , I looked in total disbelief as he turned onto the slip road which was a good 6" deep
I watched him gingerly drive down until he got to the bottom wher he jackknifed , what was going through his mind I have no idea, did he really think he stood a chance of getting up the hill after the junction
Monkeylegend said:
So you were holding up the lady in the A class, and the lady in the RR was holding you up. A sort of role reversal scenario.
How would you have reacted if the lady in the A class had tried to overtake you?
You need to be careful if you get out of your car for confrontation every time something happens, we are very aggressive over here, or was it because they were only female?
First example = downhillHow would you have reacted if the lady in the A class had tried to overtake you?
You need to be careful if you get out of your car for confrontation every time something happens, we are very aggressive over here, or was it because they were only female?
Edited by Monkeylegend on Saturday 24th January 15:35
Second example = uphill
Slightly different scenarios - especially in the snow!
OP was driving cautiously in the first scenario, nothing wrong with that, and was annoyed because the girl behind didn't like it and was driving to close.
OP has the reverse situation, gets annoyed yet again and decided to make what was possibly seen as an aggressive overtake in the circumstances. I don't think the terrain makes any difference to be honest, it's all about how people behave in these type of circumstances, and I thought it was a bit ironic on the part of the OP.
For the lady in the RR to be on the phone to the police, she must have felt intimidated.
Op is a "getter outer" which itself can be seen as aggressive and intimidating and asking for trouble.
I suspect the OP would have stayed in his car if the two females had been accompanied by their male other halves, if they have them. He comes across as a bit of a bully to be honest.
OP has the reverse situation, gets annoyed yet again and decided to make what was possibly seen as an aggressive overtake in the circumstances. I don't think the terrain makes any difference to be honest, it's all about how people behave in these type of circumstances, and I thought it was a bit ironic on the part of the OP.
For the lady in the RR to be on the phone to the police, she must have felt intimidated.
Op is a "getter outer" which itself can be seen as aggressive and intimidating and asking for trouble.
I suspect the OP would have stayed in his car if the two females had been accompanied by their male other halves, if they have them. He comes across as a bit of a bully to be honest.
Personally I noticed a really marked difference in driving when I moved from the city (London) to the countryside. In London, there are many junctions where half of the day you're only getting out if someone lets you out. It becomes part of the traffic flow.
When I moved back to the country, I would frequently flash or wave people out and they'd sit there, bemused, having no idea what I was doing. In the city if you think about the brakes a bus will wedge itself into a panda-sized gap.
OP, if you think you're going to be able to educate other drivers on the road, you're dead wrong. If you think it is bad in a 1.2 Corsa, think what it is like when you drive a "flash" car. I've overtaken plenty of people doing 40 in an arrow-straight bit of NSL, only to slow to 30 in a 30 and they suddenly become a hero, riding your bumper and pretending to polish a sausage.
When I moved back to the country, I would frequently flash or wave people out and they'd sit there, bemused, having no idea what I was doing. In the city if you think about the brakes a bus will wedge itself into a panda-sized gap.
OP, if you think you're going to be able to educate other drivers on the road, you're dead wrong. If you think it is bad in a 1.2 Corsa, think what it is like when you drive a "flash" car. I've overtaken plenty of people doing 40 in an arrow-straight bit of NSL, only to slow to 30 in a 30 and they suddenly become a hero, riding your bumper and pretending to polish a sausage.
Monkeylegend said:
I don't think the terrain makes any difference to be honest, it's all about how people behave in these type of circumstances
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you've not got much experience of driving in snow?Monkeylegend said:
For the lady in the RR to be on the phone to the police, she must have felt intimidated.
Claiming to be calling the police and calling the police are two different things; I haven't heard anything from the rozzers... being overtaken at circa 20mph is hardly in the realms of 'oh my god we're all gonna die'. Regardless of that, she was in a 2 tonne RR blocking me on the wrong side of the road, I was in a supermini. I can't comprehend why somebody would do that intentionally.Monkeylegend today said:
I suspect the OP would have stayed in his car if the two females had been accompanied by their male other halves, if they have them. He comes across as a bit of a bully to be honest.
Monkeylegend a few weeks ago said:
Nothing like being judgemental hey.
Everyone's driving abilities, and vehicle's abilities vary in the snow, unfortunately. I drove along the A701 from Edinburgh to Moffat early this morning, a good 15 - 20 miles of it were untreated and had a good covering of snow. However, it was grippy enough to be able to sustain 50-60 mph, slowing to 40 or maybe less for the tighter turns. I could also brake plenty well enough without triggering the ABS, so it's not like it was massively risky. I've got tall, fairly narrow tyres though, so that may help, but it might just be the case that the snow was hard and frozen, which is generally quite grippy anyway.
I always think on snow you can go quite quickly and there's usually a surprising amount of grip once you're under way, provided you don't stab and stamp at the controls.
Of course, the real answer is that I trained all the WRC drivers, so know my stuff
Anyway, that's not really relevant, other than to give an example. Further down the road, on the M6 north of Lancaster, I was in the middle lane, cruise on at 70 mph overtaking a vehicle doing approximately 60-65 mph. A knuckle dragger driving a rented Iveco van (3.5 tonnes, single wheel at the back), came up behind me in the middle lane, right hand lane was deserted, and started giving me the high beams. At this point he was trying to get in the boot
I've no idea why he didn't use the right hand lane to overtake, it wasn't like it was busy else I've have booted it to get out of his way, but there was virtually nothing on the road.
I think basically some people are odd, other's don't know what they're doing, and some think that if you're going faster than them, you're a maniac
I always think on snow you can go quite quickly and there's usually a surprising amount of grip once you're under way, provided you don't stab and stamp at the controls.
Of course, the real answer is that I trained all the WRC drivers, so know my stuff
Anyway, that's not really relevant, other than to give an example. Further down the road, on the M6 north of Lancaster, I was in the middle lane, cruise on at 70 mph overtaking a vehicle doing approximately 60-65 mph. A knuckle dragger driving a rented Iveco van (3.5 tonnes, single wheel at the back), came up behind me in the middle lane, right hand lane was deserted, and started giving me the high beams. At this point he was trying to get in the boot
I've no idea why he didn't use the right hand lane to overtake, it wasn't like it was busy else I've have booted it to get out of his way, but there was virtually nothing on the road.
I think basically some people are odd, other's don't know what they're doing, and some think that if you're going faster than them, you're a maniac
jayemm89 said:
If you think it is bad in a 1.2 Corsa, think what it is like when you drive a "flash" car. I've overtaken plenty of people doing 40 in an arrow-straight bit of NSL, only to slow to 30 in a 30 and they suddenly become a hero, riding your bumper and pretending to polish a sausage.
I've noticed this both as a passenger and when driving "flash" cars. That's why my preferred mode of day to day transport is a Volvo 940 - lots of metal and a book value lower than the average insurance excess. They're actually quite good fun in the snow too - reasonable traction on winter tyres with 200kg of sandbags strapped in the boot. I used to have great fun going round roundabouts in the snow at not much more than walking pace on full opposite lock with rooster-tails of snow arching out the back. Might have to pick one up off fleabay if I'm back next Christmas. I'm sure the old LSD is lying around somewhere....I'm with the OP on this one. Most people are dicks in the snow, completely unaware of the techniques of driving in those conditions and with no awareness of the impact of their actions on other road users. For that reason I no longer drive in the snow, it just isn't worth the aggravation.
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