Learner Drivers & kids , Time for a change in the law ?
Discussion
Saw something very worrying today. I was following a car with L plates on at ~9am through the town centre. This involved driving down a road past a school that is tricky at the best of times . At that time of day its full of school run mums, parked cars dumped in the road and is quite narrow. Often gets gridlocked and requires some tricky maneuvering to get through.
This learner was clearly inexperienced , swerving all over the place, twice came within mm of hitting kerbs and once even managed to drift left into a junction then back out again narrowly missing a big kerb. Luckily no car coming. Also didnt bother stopping at a roundabout and was generally exhibiting the driving behaviors I'd expect of someone on their first lesson or maybe second.
This car had a baby and I think 1 or two other small children strapped in the back - now as an experienced driver I still find babies/small kids can be very distracting, so god only knows what it does to a learner. Add the inexperience and its just a disaster waiting to happen.
Isnt it time the law was changed to ensure only the learner and accompanying licence holder are in the car ? And if BiB saw someone so badly out of control in those circumstances would they have a word ? Not sure what offences if any were committed by the driver as they were driving with L plates but I would assume the supervising licence holder should have some questions to answer about taking such an inexperienced driver out under those circumstances.
This learner was clearly inexperienced , swerving all over the place, twice came within mm of hitting kerbs and once even managed to drift left into a junction then back out again narrowly missing a big kerb. Luckily no car coming. Also didnt bother stopping at a roundabout and was generally exhibiting the driving behaviors I'd expect of someone on their first lesson or maybe second.
This car had a baby and I think 1 or two other small children strapped in the back - now as an experienced driver I still find babies/small kids can be very distracting, so god only knows what it does to a learner. Add the inexperience and its just a disaster waiting to happen.
Isnt it time the law was changed to ensure only the learner and accompanying licence holder are in the car ? And if BiB saw someone so badly out of control in those circumstances would they have a word ? Not sure what offences if any were committed by the driver as they were driving with L plates but I would assume the supervising licence holder should have some questions to answer about taking such an inexperienced driver out under those circumstances.
You can't ban everything. The point in having a driver with a license in the car with you is that they are responsible. If they notice that the kids are distracting the driver then they should get them to stop or take over. However, it is quite possible that this person is just learning to drive and it was nothing to do with the kids. They may have been at the first/second lesson stage.
What was in my mind but didnt come across in that post was the danger aspect - this woman was damned lucky not to have an accident in the time I was following her and that was only about half a mile. The kids being a distraction is one issue but surely as a parent you wouldnt want to expose them to the significant risk of an accident. This learner wasnt hanging around either - yes she was sticking to the limit but she was accelerating hard to get to it and was driving a lot faster than was safe for the conditions and not slowing down when she should be.
I kind of have to agree with the OP. If you take the kids out of the equation, it isn't exactly wise to take someone at the very first stages of driving past a busy school...
I guess most of these learner cars have dual controls though so it probably isn't as bad as it seems. But dual controls still don't guarantee that nothing will go wrong.
I guess most of these learner cars have dual controls though so it probably isn't as bad as it seems. But dual controls still don't guarantee that nothing will go wrong.
Swanny87 said:
I guess most of these learner cars have dual controls though so it probably isn't as bad as it seems. But dual controls still don't guarantee that nothing will go wrong.
If I've understood the OP correctly, this was not a driving school car, but a private car with L-plates on so that a parent or whoever can teach their child. So there would be no dual controls, and a "supervisor" who's quite possibly unable to assess risk properly either.Learner drivers are not immune from the law, and this one sounds about as close to the definition of "driving without due care and attention" as you could get.
R0G said:
The last thing a learner needs extra distraction so having kids or any other persons in the car which can cause such is very silly and shows a lack of common sense
Nonsense. Learning the self discipline to ignore distractions is an important part of learning anything which carries responsibility.I drove 4-up for months on L-plates building experience. If the family had to go anywhere, I drove providing it wasn't motorway.
That's far more sensible than rocketing through driving lessons in an environmental bubble, pass a test then be exposed to real life.
The issue in OP's case is that that particular learner was still in empty industrial estate at night levels of ability - or perhaps lacks the basic aptitude to drive at all. It was letting a complete liability of a learner driver take that route at that time of day that showed lack of common sense.
jamieduff1981 said:
Nonsense. Learning the self discipline to ignore distractions is an important part of learning anything which carries responsibility.
I drove 4-up for months on L-plates building experience. If the family had to go anywhere, I drove providing it wasn't motorway.
That's far more sensible than rocketing through driving lessons in an environmental bubble, pass a test then be exposed to real life.
The issue in OP's case is that that particular learner was still in empty industrial estate at night levels of ability - or perhaps lacks the basic aptitude to drive at all. It was letting a complete liability of a learner driver take that route at that time of day that showed lack of common sense.
Agreed. I think driving with passengers is an important part of learning to drive.I drove 4-up for months on L-plates building experience. If the family had to go anywhere, I drove providing it wasn't motorway.
That's far more sensible than rocketing through driving lessons in an environmental bubble, pass a test then be exposed to real life.
The issue in OP's case is that that particular learner was still in empty industrial estate at night levels of ability - or perhaps lacks the basic aptitude to drive at all. It was letting a complete liability of a learner driver take that route at that time of day that showed lack of common sense.
philmots said:
As it happens. I was out the other evening at around 19:30, it was a dark country road but otherwise good conditions.
Learner in a Focus doing 20-30mph with cars stacked up behind..
Ridiculous
It happens. Was it narrowly missing children and obstacles or just driving slowly in early evening after most commuters had cleared off the roads? Where and when should learners take their early lessons?Learner in a Focus doing 20-30mph with cars stacked up behind..
Ridiculous
By the sound of it this was your typical family car on the school run with Mum being harassed and distracted into crap driving by the kids but has forgotten to remove teenage sons L plates (which IIRC is illegal?)
However, I think it should be law to learn to drive with only one passenger- the instructor or non-professional adviser who should be at least twice your age with experience. Then when you do pass you cannot take passengers for 2yrs probation, any driving offenses in that time and you loose your license completely for 5yrs.
However, I think it should be law to learn to drive with only one passenger- the instructor or non-professional adviser who should be at least twice your age with experience. Then when you do pass you cannot take passengers for 2yrs probation, any driving offenses in that time and you loose your license completely for 5yrs.
scubadude said:
However, I think it should be law to learn to drive with only one passenger- the instructor or non-professional adviser who should be at least twice your age with experience. Then when you do pass you cannot take passengers for 2yrs probation, any driving offenses in that time and you loose your license completely for 5yrs.
Eh? Twice your age? So the average 18yo would need someone 36yo and a 50yo could never practice? Do you have any evidence that any of that would make any difference? Not being able to take any passengers for 2 years is just nonsense. Allot of people learn to drive when they have kids, as they suddenly need to be more mobile. And 5 year ban for doing 77mph on a motorway? Don't be silly.scubadude said:
By the sound of it this was your typical family car on the school run with Mum being harassed and distracted into crap driving by the kids but has forgotten to remove teenage sons L plates (which IIRC is illegal?)
However, I think it should be law to learn to drive with only one passenger- the instructor or non-professional adviser who should be at least twice your age with experience. Then when you do pass you cannot take passengers for 2yrs probation, any driving offenses in that time and you loose your license completely for 5yrs.
No this was a young lady and was very obviously not sure what she was doing and definitely not in control of the car. However, I think it should be law to learn to drive with only one passenger- the instructor or non-professional adviser who should be at least twice your age with experience. Then when you do pass you cannot take passengers for 2yrs probation, any driving offenses in that time and you loose your license completely for 5yrs.
Debaser said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Nonsense. Learning the self discipline to ignore distractions is an important part of learning anything which carries responsibility.
I drove 4-up for months on L-plates building experience. If the family had to go anywhere, I drove providing it wasn't motorway.
That's far more sensible than rocketing through driving lessons in an environmental bubble, pass a test then be exposed to real life.
The issue in OP's case is that that particular learner was still in empty industrial estate at night levels of ability - or perhaps lacks the basic aptitude to drive at all. It was letting a complete liability of a learner driver take that route at that time of day that showed lack of common sense.
Agreed. I think driving with passengers is an important part of learning to drive.I drove 4-up for months on L-plates building experience. If the family had to go anywhere, I drove providing it wasn't motorway.
That's far more sensible than rocketing through driving lessons in an environmental bubble, pass a test then be exposed to real life.
The issue in OP's case is that that particular learner was still in empty industrial estate at night levels of ability - or perhaps lacks the basic aptitude to drive at all. It was letting a complete liability of a learner driver take that route at that time of day that showed lack of common sense.
Too many driving instructors teach their pupils to pass a test, not how to drive in the real world.
Personally I feel anything – such as carrying passengers – that give learner drivers a real world experience is a good thing.
I mean would you rather they start really learning to drive when they’re by themselves unsupervised?
I regularly drove while learning with a full car, it helps to gain experience. Doing a hill start in a diesel Fiesta certainly requires a lot more effort with a full car, something I wouldn’t of learnt if I hadn’t of driven with passengers for example.
In the OP’s situation though it does seem somewhat stupid to take a novice driver on their first few lessons to a stressful environment like a busy school. I think the busyness of rush hour outside a school was more to the detriment of the learner here than the fact they were carrying passengers.
Magic919 said:
I see cars driving like that without L plates.
Agreed. The older I get the more I can observe things like this with no emotional involvement whatsoever, I just can't be bothered to think of the children anymore, and life is a lot less stressful. Stop worrying about things you have no influence over OP, and concentrate on your bit.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff