Non "performance" drivers cars?
Discussion
I'll probably be downgrading from my Golf GTI V soon. It's a great compromise- I get 30MPG+ everywhere unless I'm driving for it's own sake, I can squeeze an improbably large amount of crap in the back when I go to Ikea etc, but when I'm not above 3500RPM it might as well be diesel. That's both good and bad, I understand. My previous car was a 60HP Punto which was hopeless in so many ways, but made driving on an uphill DC en event, allowed me to drive foot to the floor fighting understeer on B roads, made overtaking a mission and was generally much more demanding of the fleshy bit in the drivers seat. I guess the Golf is just too good.
I've been thinking of things like the 106 Rallye as the epitome of the latter, but reading an Ex-Elise owner extolling the virtues of his new Honda Insight (the much maligned MK II) has got me thinking- does a car even have to be "warm" to be a good drivers car?
I can remember an old Evo group test which had the Clio V6 & Impreza RB5 as the joint winners. While the latter was considered the better by every scientific metric, the former was so involving that you wouldn't care about 0-60 or anything else because yopu'd be glued to the event of driving the thing.
Before I ramble any more (Friday night!) I'll just ask- what cars out there, in your experience, that were never marketed as Hot or Warm, offer a great driving experience in their given environment?
I've been thinking of things like the 106 Rallye as the epitome of the latter, but reading an Ex-Elise owner extolling the virtues of his new Honda Insight (the much maligned MK II) has got me thinking- does a car even have to be "warm" to be a good drivers car?
I can remember an old Evo group test which had the Clio V6 & Impreza RB5 as the joint winners. While the latter was considered the better by every scientific metric, the former was so involving that you wouldn't care about 0-60 or anything else because yopu'd be glued to the event of driving the thing.
Before I ramble any more (Friday night!) I'll just ask- what cars out there, in your experience, that were never marketed as Hot or Warm, offer a great driving experience in their given environment?
My top vote goes for the mundane BMW 1 and 3 series models. After owning several and driving them all, I actually reckon the lighter engined models with less grip and smaller wheels drive better than the jiggly and jerky 'performance' models (bar the M3s, which are all excellent) - exactly the same chassis, but more exploitable with less grip, along with a vastly better ride and less weight up front. That's the last generation of both 1 and 3 - for the latest generation it seems you need M-Sport suspension to get the neutral handling of the old standard model. I've heard people complaining of understeer, which is truly bizarre given that almost all mid and rear engined cars (Lotus, Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche etc) have far more steady state understeer than a basic FE/RWD saloon like a 3 series or C class.
My second vote goes to the MINI. I've just spent the week driving a MINI diesel and who gives a crap about the engine - it was a genuinely fun to drive.
My final vote would be for the original Ford Ka - a right hoot in totally base spec standard form.
ETA: I've never driven a classic Mini, Alfa 75 or indeed any of the old school RWD saloons, but I'm sure there's some gems amongst them.
My second vote goes to the MINI. I've just spent the week driving a MINI diesel and who gives a crap about the engine - it was a genuinely fun to drive.
My final vote would be for the original Ford Ka - a right hoot in totally base spec standard form.
ETA: I've never driven a classic Mini, Alfa 75 or indeed any of the old school RWD saloons, but I'm sure there's some gems amongst them.
Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 21st February 00:21
I can have a whale of a time on a bendy road in my Diesel Skoda Estate. The fact that it's a wallowing mess of confused steering feedback, sluggish braking and odd power delivery when pressing on (by it's standards) makes it a very amusing way of tackling a good old PH sort of road. Good? No. Fun? Yes.
The Jag will waft down the same roads at higher speed without me needing to think about it.
A long time ago my daily commute took me along the B1135 (think the number may have changed now) from Wymondham on to the Mulbarton Road and past the Lotus factory ... nothing special but relatively smooth and had some flowing bends. My little Fiesta 1100 was an absolute treat at full chat which wasn't very fast but I was completely engaged in the process. I sold that for an E30 323i and it just barrelled down the road way faster without much work from me at all.
Unless it was wet
So, in short, s
t cars can be good too 
The Jag will waft down the same roads at higher speed without me needing to think about it.
A long time ago my daily commute took me along the B1135 (think the number may have changed now) from Wymondham on to the Mulbarton Road and past the Lotus factory ... nothing special but relatively smooth and had some flowing bends. My little Fiesta 1100 was an absolute treat at full chat which wasn't very fast but I was completely engaged in the process. I sold that for an E30 323i and it just barrelled down the road way faster without much work from me at all.
Unless it was wet
So, in short, s
t cars can be good too 90s French or Italian hatchback. No power steering or brakes,13/14" wheels with tyres no wider than 165 section, no weight so no need for firm suspension or low profile tyres in the name of handling.
I like how you have to put some effort through the wheel and give the brake pedal a good shove. I used to enjoy spanking my brother's old Peugeot 106 about.
I like how you have to put some effort through the wheel and give the brake pedal a good shove. I used to enjoy spanking my brother's old Peugeot 106 about.
RobM77 said:
My final vote would be for the original Ford Ka - a right hoot in totally base spec standard form.
Got to agree on that one - I had one as a hire car for a weekend ( it was the cheapest car to hire! ) and had to do a 300 mile round trip. It wasn't that fun on the motorway but really came into its own on the B-roads - great funEdited by s m on Saturday 21st February 01:29
Ford PUMA, cheap to buy , cheap to run and an absolute blast. Takes me back to my teenage years when we had small cars without much power (generally under100bhp) but handled well.
The only real thing to look out for seem to be rust wheel arches and the speed sender fron the gearbox.
Might not be much good in IKEA though.
The only real thing to look out for seem to be rust wheel arches and the speed sender fron the gearbox.
Might not be much good in IKEA though.
If you put the effort into driving well, you can enjoy driving anything.
A high performance driver in a low performance car will always enjoy themselves more than a low performance driver in a high performance car.
And I concur with many of the posters in this thread, as our current collection of 116i, Mini Cooper and MX5 demonstrates.
A high performance driver in a low performance car will always enjoy themselves more than a low performance driver in a high performance car.
And I concur with many of the posters in this thread, as our current collection of 116i, Mini Cooper and MX5 demonstrates.
Having driven a variety of stty cheap rentals over the last couple of years, the one that left a lasting impression was a 2010 Hyundai i20 (yes, really). A particular drive through the Spanish backroads at night was unexpectedly rewarding.
Focus 1.0 Ecoboost on the IoM was ok as well.
tty cheap rentals over the last couple of years, the one that left a lasting impression was a 2010 Hyundai i20 (yes, really). A particular drive through the Spanish backroads at night was unexpectedly rewarding.Focus 1.0 Ecoboost on the IoM was ok as well.
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