Are modern hot hatches too extreme and too expensive?

[Ecosseven]

Hot hatches in the Golf / Focus / Astra class are now very fast and very expensive. For a lot of people (including me) something cheaper but still with decent performance is more appealing. Not so long ago a hot hatch had 180 – 200bhp and this was considered plenty for making progress and to have some fun.

My question is, have hot hatches missed their sweet spot in terms of purchase price / looks / running costs / performance?

The new Civic type R looks awful in my opinion.
The Astra VXR has 20” alloys which cost a fortune in tyres and ruin the ride quality
The focus ST is a great car but still drinks fuel
The Golf GTI is well over £25k although I acknowledge that nobody pays list price for any hot hatch these days.

The obvious answer is to downsize to smaller hot hatches like the Fiesta, 208 and Clio but what if you need 5 doors, more refinement, slightly more room, and want a manual gearbox?

[Sump]

I don't get the people buying these. Why not just buy a real car?

[GTIAlex]

Fiesta ST is the answer surely?
If you need 5 doors then your obviously too past it to have a hot hatch

New focus St-D?

[s m]

GTIAlex said:

Fiesta ST is the answer surely?
If you need 5 doors then your obviously too past it to have a hot hatch

New focus St-D?

They do make a 5-door Fiesta ST

They don't sell it here though

[cocopop]

Sump said:

I don't get the people buying these. Why not just buy a real car?

[anonymous-user]

Hot hatches have a st reputation. If I told people I drove a hot hatch, this is what I'd expect they'd think:

[okgo]

Sump said:

I don't get the people buying these. Why not just buy a real car?

In the case of many of them, they do every so well that unless you're that bothered about cars its hard to justify anything other. There is a reason VW sell so many Golfs, in the case of the GTI it is a fantastic all rounder that doesn't shed its value in horrendous fashion like many 'proper cars'...

But in some cases, I think yes, they're too expensive (RS3 anyone?!). But given most people don't buy cars with cash it doesn't matter what the headline figure is as much as the monthly, so that is why you see people who earn modest salaries with two fairly expensive cars on the drive.

[no effort]

Ecosseven said:

My question is, have hot hatches missed their sweet spot in terms of purchase price / looks / running costs / performance?

Nope

[IanCress]

Then surely you go for the next model down. The 180bhp Focus Ecoboost for example.

[SuperchargedVR6]

OpulentBob said:

Hot hatches have a st reputation. If I told people I drove a hot hatch, this is what I'd expect they'd think:

They'd think that example has an insufficient tailpipe count.

[ajh38]

I would agree with this. In my opinion there's nothing more fun than my 1.6 205 GTi. I'd like to see the 108 with the. 1.2 110bhp engine in it. The 1.2, 82bhp is fun in its own right but I think with the extra power and a slightly more focussec setup it would be amazing.

[SuperchargedVR6]

okgo said:

Sump said:

I don't get the people buying these. Why not just buy a real car?

In the case of many of them, they do every so well that unless you're that bothered about cars its hard to justify anything other. There is a reason VW sell so many Golfs, in the case of the GTI it is a fantastic all rounder that doesn't shed its value in horrendous fashion like many 'proper cars'...

And they fit in multi-storey car parks, they don't whack their chin on the floor when leaving said car parks, and they're perfect for touring holidays as they don't consume 3/4 of the road width. And on small B roads, I'd wager they aren't far behind 'real cars' in terms point to point punch.

[DUMBO100]

They are the do everything modern transport.Practical and fun at the same time

[Tickle]

OpulentBob said:

Hot hatches have a st reputation. If I told people I drove a hot hatch, this is what I'd expect they'd think:

Is that a re-badged Golf R?

[sjg]

See the last GT86 thread, you'd think 200bhp was barely enough to move these days.

Modern hot hatches (the ones selling at least) are propped up with good finance/lease deals which make them very affordable to own, for the first few years at least.

In the VAG world, the 1.8 TSI works nicely for that "class below" - eg. Leon FR, Skoda Octavia. Odd that VW don't seem to offer it on the Golf though, they do in US/Canda. Audi do it on the A3, but only with S-tronic. Ford do a 1.5 Ecoboost with 182PS. I believe Honda has a turbo petrol on the way which might slot into that too.

They're just not marketed as out and out performance models, because they have flagships that do that job.

[BL Fanboy]

OpulentBob said:

Hot hatches have a st reputation. If I told people I drove a hot hatch, this is what I'd expect they'd think:

But look, not one, or even two exhausts but six. Need I say more. Not many cars out there need six exhausts.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Kia Pro_Ceed GT. 200 hp, Focus sized, looks smart, drives well and you can get nearly new ones for 13-15k. 3 door body as well, not the last word in anything, but a decent car with a nice turn of pace.

[anonymous-user]

BL Fanboy said:

OpulentBob said:

Hot hatches have a st reputation. If I told people I drove a hot hatch, this is what I'd expect they'd think:

But look, not one, or even two exhausts but six. Need I say more. Not many cars out there need six exhausts.

That's a Google pic, but I have seen that very car driving round (where else?) Essex.

[Sump]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

okgo said:

Sump said:

I don't get the people buying these. Why not just buy a real car?

, and they're perfect for touring holidays as they don't consume 3/4 of the road width.

[macky17]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Kia Pro_Ceed GT. 200 hp, Focus sized, looks smart, drives well and you can get nearly new ones for 13-15k. 3 door body as well, not the last word in anything, but a decent car with a nice turn of pace.

Good call, I'm curious to try one.

What are these 'real' cars people are referring to? Genuine question.