Overtakes & courtesy to other drivers
Discussion
Picture this: You're driving a car with a decent amount of power on an NSL single carriageway road, and are half-committed to an overtake (i.e., already moving/moved onto the opposite carriageway but still with ample time to slot back in behind the would-be overtakee). Oh look, an oncoming car. You are faced with a decision: abandon the overtake or think stuff it, I've got enough time to finish the overtake safely, and do it anyway.
More often than not I find myself in the second category and sometimes feel a bit of a prat for doing so.
Example: I'm driving up a moderately steep hill, 60 limit, most drivers sit at about 40-45. Overtake a car which is probably already doing 50+, car coming the opposite way appears round the bend. I finish the overtake with a couple of seconds to spare, maybe more. The car being overtaken puts its brakes on when being passed - not out of necessity, the driver just didn't expect to be overtaken so quickly and for a split second probably thought the worst could happen. The overtaken car then took a long time to catch up with me after I hit more traffic further down the road, which made me think they may have been a bit shocked at the manoeuvre. Whilst the overtake was not unsafe it was a bit of a knob move and was discourteous driving at the least, it would have been a more agreeable decision to swallow pride and not have gone ahead with it.
I suspect many PHers have these moments, not to the point where they are dangerous as in being metres away from a collision, but more pursuing swift progress to the point of being a bit of a t
t in the view of a normal road user.
So the moral of the story is that maybe I should pick my overtakes more wisely, not just on the basis of whether they are achievable but also bearing in mind whether they're likely to ps off or otherwise affect other drivers. Would be good to hear other PHers' experiences and thoughts on this topic.
More often than not I find myself in the second category and sometimes feel a bit of a prat for doing so.
Example: I'm driving up a moderately steep hill, 60 limit, most drivers sit at about 40-45. Overtake a car which is probably already doing 50+, car coming the opposite way appears round the bend. I finish the overtake with a couple of seconds to spare, maybe more. The car being overtaken puts its brakes on when being passed - not out of necessity, the driver just didn't expect to be overtaken so quickly and for a split second probably thought the worst could happen. The overtaken car then took a long time to catch up with me after I hit more traffic further down the road, which made me think they may have been a bit shocked at the manoeuvre. Whilst the overtake was not unsafe it was a bit of a knob move and was discourteous driving at the least, it would have been a more agreeable decision to swallow pride and not have gone ahead with it.
I suspect many PHers have these moments, not to the point where they are dangerous as in being metres away from a collision, but more pursuing swift progress to the point of being a bit of a t
t in the view of a normal road user.So the moral of the story is that maybe I should pick my overtakes more wisely, not just on the basis of whether they are achievable but also bearing in mind whether they're likely to p
s off or otherwise affect other drivers. Would be good to hear other PHers' experiences and thoughts on this topic.Just come back from Norway. Had a hire car whilst over there and did a fair amount of driving at night, on ice, whilst it was snowing (which was interesting to say the least).
When drivers over there are thinking of going for an overtake - they will flash you to let you know. This allows you to ease off the accelerator to aid their pass.
A driver flashing you from behind over here would be seen as aggressive/pushy.
When drivers over there are thinking of going for an overtake - they will flash you to let you know. This allows you to ease off the accelerator to aid their pass.
A driver flashing you from behind over here would be seen as aggressive/pushy.
Is it worth it? No. People make mistakes, could be your judgement could be the speed in which the car oncoming comes around the blind bend, could be somebody you're overtaking speeding up/not seeing you. Not all of these things are controlled by you, despite you knowing or thinking you know you have enough time you cant factor in how fast the car coming round the bend will be coming, believe it or not, people speed.
All it takes it one small mistake for you to have a head on collision that would've been avoided if you just sat back and chilled.
All it takes it one small mistake for you to have a head on collision that would've been avoided if you just sat back and chilled.
McFist said:
maybe I should pick my overtakes more wisely, not just on the basis of whether they are achievable but also bearing in mind whether they're likely to ps off or otherwise affect other drivers.
Ever thought of spending some time and money with the Institute of Advanced Motorists?s off or otherwise affect other drivers.McFist said:
...... Oh look, an oncoming car. You are faced with a decision: abandon the overtake or think stuff it, I've got enough time to finish the overtake safely, and do it anyway.
More often than not I find myself in the second category and sometimes feel a bit of a prat for doing so
The problem here is that if, for some reason it all goes pear shaped, you could, by your own admission be adjudged to be driving recklessly.More often than not I find myself in the second category and sometimes feel a bit of a prat for doing so
Claudia Skies said:
Ever thought of spending some time and money with the Institute of Advanced Motorists?
Apparently he has done, and faithfully read the condescending posts in the PH forum of the same name, and came to the conclusion that his money would be better spent on more fuel.I know what the OP means - there are some sections where once you've committed to an overtake it's long enough to get the job done safely with some safety built in, but to someone who doesn't overtake (or can't judge it) it might look too short.
That, or the other situation is when you're coming back inbetween two cars in a queue, only to find the gap has been made a good deal smaller than it was when you started, and have to squeeze into a gap.
That, or the other situation is when you're coming back inbetween two cars in a queue, only to find the gap has been made a good deal smaller than it was when you started, and have to squeeze into a gap.
McFist said:
Example: I'm driving up a moderately steep hill, 60 limit, most drivers sit at about 40-45. Overtake a car which is probably already doing 50+, car coming the opposite way appears round the bend. I finish the overtake with a couple of seconds to spare, maybe more.
That does suggest that space for the overtake wasn't as generous as it coould've been.General rule of thumb: What happens if somebody driving as enthusiastically as me is coming the other way?
McFist said:
The car being overtaken puts its brakes on when being passed - not out of necessity, the driver just didn't expect to be overtaken so quickly and for a split second probably thought the worst could happen. The overtaken car then took a long time to catch up with me after I hit more traffic further down the road, which made me think they may have been a bit shocked at the manoeuvre. Whilst the overtake was not unsafe it was a bit of a knob move and was discourteous driving at the least
A bit down the road, something goes awry, and you end up tangled in somebody coming the other way/out of a junction. No witnesses bar you and the person you met, and you both swear blind it's the other person's fault. First person along is Mr Plod. Second person along is the one you startled with your slightly tight overtake. Three guesses what angle they're going to take.The moral of the story here is that you knew you were being a penis.
Everyone makes mistakes, the key is not making the same mistake twice...
Some kind of tuition could be good, either from local plod (mine do 'Bikesafe' days, wouldn't be surprised to find equivalent car days) or another reputable organisation such as the IAM or similar.
Everyone makes mistakes, the key is not making the same mistake twice...
Some kind of tuition could be good, either from local plod (mine do 'Bikesafe' days, wouldn't be surprised to find equivalent car days) or another reputable organisation such as the IAM or similar.
TooMany2cvs said:
A bit down the road, something goes awry, and you end up tangled in somebody coming the other way/out of a junction. No witnesses bar you and the person you met, and you both swear blind it's the other person's fault. First person along is Mr Plod. Second person along is the one you startled with your slightly tight overtake. Three guesses what angle they're going to take.
10ps comes to mind in this situation.Mopar440 said:
Claudia Skies said:
Ever thought of spending some time and money with the Institute of Advanced Motorists?
Apparently he has done, and faithfully read the condescending posts in the PH forum of the same name, and came to the conclusion that his money would be better spent on more fuel.TooMany2cvs said:
General rule of thumb: What happens if somebody driving as enthusiastically as me is coming the other way?
This is the mantra I live by, particuarly on back road hoons. Overtaking is safe and legal but if you're looking for verification as to whether your overtakes are up to scratch or not, then I would perhaps judge them as being the latter. A clean overtake on a straight road is an easy pass, one that involves other drivers braking or giving you, the overtaker, extra attention, are perhaps ones that you need to rethink. Without coming across all hand-wringing, imagine if there was an issue while conducting an overtake as described in the OP. You miss a gear, hit some oil, there's a nasty pothole in the way or an animal jumps out. On a straight road, there's no issue with aborting the overtake and slipping back behind the other car. If you're in a situation where an aborted overtake and the subsequent braking to return to your carriageway puts anybody in danger, then your overtake was inherently unsafe. Don't forget the potential manslaughter fans that decide to floor it when you overtake them, and the dangers they pose to everybody on the road.
ETA - sounds like I'm being a bit of a prick to the OP but I mean it in the other way - use the second-guess rule. If you need to second-guess a judgement you're making on the road, it's probably not safe to do so. Not to say that you aren't competent enough, but do you really expect the Peugeot 3008 driver you're overtaking to even think once about their driving, let alone think again?!
(other non-PH cars are available)
Most people will judge safe overtaking distances by the capabilities of their own car. Most people are not PHers. Most people drive slow ass cars. I often make very safe overtakes only to have the car being overtaken slam their brakes on as they think that my car, like theirs, is going to take 5 minutes to get past.
I really think though that the OP should maybe start thinking more about what happens if a car comes around that blind corner at high speed......quite often I won't go for what appears to be a safe overtake as I know that the corner in the distance is one that can be taken at a high speed. 9.9999 times it would be fine even if a car were to come around the corner but what about that one time it's somebody coming tanking around it.....
People these days don't like being overtaken. I have found some places to be a lot worse than others. I used to live near Oxford and I swear everyone down there thinks that overtaking under any circumstances is illegal due to the number of beeps and flashes. In north-west Scotland where I live now, it's very different. Not had any beeps or flashes once and most people will indicate to allow you past. On the single track sections when people pull over here to let me past I give them a double indicator flash to say thanks and get a headlight flash as a 'you're welcome'. I also don't see the old 'panic and slam on the brakes because that crazy maniac is going to overtake me' up here either.
So OP, either wait for a longer straight, safe place to overtake or move to Scotland.
I really think though that the OP should maybe start thinking more about what happens if a car comes around that blind corner at high speed......quite often I won't go for what appears to be a safe overtake as I know that the corner in the distance is one that can be taken at a high speed. 9.9999 times it would be fine even if a car were to come around the corner but what about that one time it's somebody coming tanking around it.....
People these days don't like being overtaken. I have found some places to be a lot worse than others. I used to live near Oxford and I swear everyone down there thinks that overtaking under any circumstances is illegal due to the number of beeps and flashes. In north-west Scotland where I live now, it's very different. Not had any beeps or flashes once and most people will indicate to allow you past. On the single track sections when people pull over here to let me past I give them a double indicator flash to say thanks and get a headlight flash as a 'you're welcome'. I also don't see the old 'panic and slam on the brakes because that crazy maniac is going to overtake me' up here either.
So OP, either wait for a longer straight, safe place to overtake or move to Scotland.
If you take this at face value:
What IAM etc would teach you is the Roadcraft method of overtaking; instead of taking a run up in a gear suited to maintaining speed, and then having to abort, you match speed with the car you're going to overtake, close up the distance a little, select a responsive gear, move offside for a look when safe to do so, and only then do you accelerate and commit.
Therefore the scenario as you describe it above literally never happens, because moving out is separated from committing. Obviously an oncoming car can still turn up once you have committed, but hopefully this process has given you more time and space to judge whether it was a safe overtake in the first place.
That's not to say the 'run up' overtake - a sort of flying banana shape - is never appropriate. If you were overtaking a cyclist on a long straight road with a good view, for instance, it'd make much more sense than matching speed first.
McFist said:
Picture this: You're driving a car with a decent amount of power on an NSL single carriageway road, and are half-committed to an overtake (i.e., already moving/moved onto the opposite carriageway but still with ample time to slot back in behind the would-be overtakee). Oh look, an oncoming car.
it sounds to me like poor overtaking technique (I know the later example you give is not the same)What IAM etc would teach you is the Roadcraft method of overtaking; instead of taking a run up in a gear suited to maintaining speed, and then having to abort, you match speed with the car you're going to overtake, close up the distance a little, select a responsive gear, move offside for a look when safe to do so, and only then do you accelerate and commit.
Therefore the scenario as you describe it above literally never happens, because moving out is separated from committing. Obviously an oncoming car can still turn up once you have committed, but hopefully this process has given you more time and space to judge whether it was a safe overtake in the first place.
That's not to say the 'run up' overtake - a sort of flying banana shape - is never appropriate. If you were overtaking a cyclist on a long straight road with a good view, for instance, it'd make much more sense than matching speed first.
trashbat - the reality is, and why I suspect some get horned and flashed by those they overtake, is that most who end up overtaking me do so after riding my rear bumper (usually when I'm doing the speed limit in a less than 50mph zone) and then pulling in too soon.
I don't get overtaken a lot, because generally I'm doing an appropriate speed. A fair bit of the time those that do overtake have given me a pretty clear indication that they feel absolutely entitled to overtake me, regardless of circumstance. Have it as far as I'm concerned, but some will react to what they perceive as dickishness.
Obviously not talking about flawless PHer overtakes.
I don't get overtaken a lot, because generally I'm doing an appropriate speed. A fair bit of the time those that do overtake have given me a pretty clear indication that they feel absolutely entitled to overtake me, regardless of circumstance. Have it as far as I'm concerned, but some will react to what they perceive as dickishness.
Obviously not talking about flawless PHer overtakes.
Ahimoth said:
trashbat - the reality is, and why I suspect some get horned and flashed by those they overtake, is that most who end up overtaking me do so after riding my rear bumper (usually when I'm doing the speed limit in a less than 50mph zone) and then pulling in too soon.
I agree, and then to a lesser extent, because they don't expect anyone to ever overtake anything.I can't say I personally ever get any grief from people I pass though; sometimes people coming the other way are extremely conservative with their estimation of time/distance, or think that I simply haven't seen them, and then they might flash, but there's very rarely anything more serious than that.
Also don't forget that out and about, you see a lot of crap overtakes - either rash or painfully slow - and so it's not that surprising that people associate 'car on wrong side of road' with 't
t'.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff