Performance tyre options & opinions
Discussion
Okay, new tyre time and with the plethora of newish tyres out, and Evo having not yet done their 2016 tyre test I'm looking for some comparative opinions. I've got winters so that element is a non-issue for me. They're going on a c300bhp Impreza with quite aggressive suspension geometry. Key points for me are strong sidewalls, good wet grip and even wear that doesn't chew edges readily. For the wet grip reasons, tyres like the Federal 595RS are out, as are Yoko AD08's. Similarly, Uniroyal Rainsports etc are out as they're just not stiff enough and feel way too squirmy in my experiences. Currently using Good Year Eagle F1 A2's so am tempted by a set of the latest A3's, but put off by stories of the sidewalls being even flimsier than on the A2's! So...my thoughts are below, but has anyone got any recommendations?
Good Year Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 - Currently running a set of the A2's and while they have good traction they do have soft sidewalls and feel a little bit vague on turn in. On lumpy corners you can also feel the rear tyres squirming and settling as the car unweights/re-weights. Not a confidence killer but then again, not a feeling I particularly warm too. At 9k the full set are also completely done, especially in the inner/outer edges with about 3mm left across the centre. Are the A3's better in this regard or are they essentially the same tyre with minor tweaks?
Dunlop SportMaxx RT2 - Shoulders don't look as solid as those on the older RT, so potentially more edge wear, and do they still have the same stiff sidewalls?
Dunlop SportMaxx RT - Good shoulders, stiff-ish sidewalls. A possibility? Seems fitted to a lot of hatch Impreza STI's and I've not hated them when I've driven them previously, although that certainly wasn't really pushing it as it wasn't my car.
Michelin Pilot Sport 4 - Used to have the PS2's on a Mk1 Octavia vRS and liked them a lot, although they don't have mega stiff sidewalls. Wore evenly, gave outstanding traction and gave great confidence to push on in the wet. The Pilot Sport 3 obviously weren't as focused but when I had them I liked them too. The PS4 is arguably a new and decent tyre, but has anyone used them and can comment on whether they're worth the admittedly marginal premium over the other options?
Continental ContiSportContact 5 - Gets rave reviews in official tests but less rave reviews from users. Seems to be a 5P version which muddies the waters too. What are the sidewalls like and is the P the version to go for, or the version to avoid?
Bridgestone Potenza S001 - Stiff sidewalls are the main appeal here, with the actual handling/grip element seemingly a bit subjective based on forum reviews. There also seem to be two types; an A rated wet grip tyre, and a B rated version which would potentially account for these differences. I've liked their stronger sidewalls before when I've had the old RE050A Pole Position but I was less impressed with the tendency to have a glidey feeling on wet/greasy roads. Granted that was nearly ten years ago and things move on but are they really now able to compete with the Eagle's in this regard?
Good Year Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 - Currently running a set of the A2's and while they have good traction they do have soft sidewalls and feel a little bit vague on turn in. On lumpy corners you can also feel the rear tyres squirming and settling as the car unweights/re-weights. Not a confidence killer but then again, not a feeling I particularly warm too. At 9k the full set are also completely done, especially in the inner/outer edges with about 3mm left across the centre. Are the A3's better in this regard or are they essentially the same tyre with minor tweaks?
Dunlop SportMaxx RT2 - Shoulders don't look as solid as those on the older RT, so potentially more edge wear, and do they still have the same stiff sidewalls?
Dunlop SportMaxx RT - Good shoulders, stiff-ish sidewalls. A possibility? Seems fitted to a lot of hatch Impreza STI's and I've not hated them when I've driven them previously, although that certainly wasn't really pushing it as it wasn't my car.
Michelin Pilot Sport 4 - Used to have the PS2's on a Mk1 Octavia vRS and liked them a lot, although they don't have mega stiff sidewalls. Wore evenly, gave outstanding traction and gave great confidence to push on in the wet. The Pilot Sport 3 obviously weren't as focused but when I had them I liked them too. The PS4 is arguably a new and decent tyre, but has anyone used them and can comment on whether they're worth the admittedly marginal premium over the other options?
Continental ContiSportContact 5 - Gets rave reviews in official tests but less rave reviews from users. Seems to be a 5P version which muddies the waters too. What are the sidewalls like and is the P the version to go for, or the version to avoid?
Bridgestone Potenza S001 - Stiff sidewalls are the main appeal here, with the actual handling/grip element seemingly a bit subjective based on forum reviews. There also seem to be two types; an A rated wet grip tyre, and a B rated version which would potentially account for these differences. I've liked their stronger sidewalls before when I've had the old RE050A Pole Position but I was less impressed with the tendency to have a glidey feeling on wet/greasy roads. Granted that was nearly ten years ago and things move on but are they really now able to compete with the Eagle's in this regard?
all the tyre fitters rave about them, don't you know ?Michelin SuperSports aren't available in 225 40 18 for a reasonable price unfortunately, especially relative to the PS4 which is touted as the replacement for the SS (although given Michelin's recent history of Pilot Sport naming conventions this could of course be completely wrong).
if price is a problem, what about nankang ns2r - https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nankang/ns-...
half the price of MP cups and B wet weather rating compared to C for the cups.
half the price of MP cups and B wet weather rating compared to C for the cups.
MDMA . said:
if price is a problem, what about nankang ns2r - https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/nankang/ns-...
half the price of MP cups and B wet weather rating compared to C for the cups.
Same issue as the AD08's etc in that they're just no use in the wet (and by wet, I mean standing water etc). The Michelin Pilot Super Sport is a different tyre to the Cup, which is another tyre that's too focused on track/dry performance for me to consider; I'm esentially after a full treaded high performance tyre rather than a road legal track tyre. Good suggestiion though as I had initially considered track day tyres but just can't accept their lack of all weather ability given how it can be up here for so much of the summer.half the price of MP cups and B wet weather rating compared to C for the cups.
Ennoch said:
Same issue as the AD08's etc in that they're just no use in the wet (and by wet, I mean standing water etc).
I am having 4 AD08R's fitted to my Chimaera on Saturday morning. Admittedly I don't drive it in the wet on purpose but the grip level is classed as "B" and that is good enough for me if ever caught out by crap weather forecasts. A friend has them on his 300+BHP Griff and tells me the grip is excellent in the wet if you drive normally.On a linked note are 4*4 cars good with directional tyres on them ?
Leins said:
I agree, but they seem to be more difficult to source these days. Are Michelin saying that the PS4 is now the non-Cup performance tyre to go for, or is PSS2 planned?
There is a new PSS planned. The PS4 is apparently about comparable to the current PSS.I have CSC5P on my car as factory fit. Pretty decent in all conditions, though there is now the CSC6 but not sure of the difference.
I cannot get MPSS in the stock size that comes with my rears, so might go up a size to a slightly higher sidewall and adjust the tune accordingly and see what all the MPSS fuss is about.
Durzel said:
Give me Michelin Pilot Super Sport, or give me death!
Not if the OP wants stiff sidewalls. The MPSS have inherently soft sidewalls, as most Michelins short of a Cup2.OP, consider the Yoki Advan 105 if you need stiff sidewalls that will help shoulder protection.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.js...
Stevesingo; The geometry is fine, and does exactly what I want it to do, but it is aggressive (as I noted in the original post), hence the stiffer sidewall being a better option. The current tyres have lasted just under 9000 miles as I worked out which I find absolutely acceptable given the driving they've had; the inner edges have gone as a result of 2 deg camber and marginal toe out, while the outer edges have gone from hard cornering. The inner edge wear is unlikely to be improved massively by sidewall stiffness but the outer edge will be, and if anything could let me drop the camber back a touch which would even up the wear. Not a major issue really, the tyre is down to 3mm in the centre so is nearly junk anyway, and I'm certainly not going to compromise on handling/grip for a small increase in tyre life. But as I also prefer the feel that comes from stiffer sidewalls I'd prefer that as an option, all things being equal, although wet performance is my main focus.
My experience of AD08's is that on damp roads they're fine, but my concern with track day specials isn't the damp road but the absolute biblical standing water levels. Aquaplane resistance on all track day tyres seems poor, and this is my reason for sticking to proper road biased tyres. The car is useable as a performance car in pretty much all conditions, and I definitely don't want that to change given that it's the car I will always jump in to get somewhere, usually in a hurry, and usually on roads you want every excuse to be able to enjoy.
Nickfrog; Good shout on the Advan 105. I had noticed that it did well in the Evo test last year but I've never been massively impressed with Yoko's in the wet (most recently the Parada's) so didn't give them much thought. Worth a look though, I'll do some more research on them.
HappyMidget; The 'P' seems to be the key (although may not be) but given that pretty much all CS5's I've come across on the usual sites have no mention of the 'P' I'm not sure I'm willing to take the risk to find out! I remember the difference between the RE050 and RE050 Pole Position's being significant enough that they could have been totally different tyres.
As for the directional tyres on an AWD car, I've never found a signifciant difference in feel that could be attributed to a tyre being directional or not, although arguably the GSD3 and other V-grooved tyres had better aquaplane resistance than the Asymmetric's in my experience. The biggest selling point to Asymmetric tyres for me is that the outer shoulder can be specifically designed to take the loading the outside edge takes during cornering, and that definitely does seem to help tyre wear.
My experience of AD08's is that on damp roads they're fine, but my concern with track day specials isn't the damp road but the absolute biblical standing water levels. Aquaplane resistance on all track day tyres seems poor, and this is my reason for sticking to proper road biased tyres. The car is useable as a performance car in pretty much all conditions, and I definitely don't want that to change given that it's the car I will always jump in to get somewhere, usually in a hurry, and usually on roads you want every excuse to be able to enjoy.
Nickfrog; Good shout on the Advan 105. I had noticed that it did well in the Evo test last year but I've never been massively impressed with Yoko's in the wet (most recently the Parada's) so didn't give them much thought. Worth a look though, I'll do some more research on them.
HappyMidget; The 'P' seems to be the key (although may not be) but given that pretty much all CS5's I've come across on the usual sites have no mention of the 'P' I'm not sure I'm willing to take the risk to find out! I remember the difference between the RE050 and RE050 Pole Position's being significant enough that they could have been totally different tyres.
As for the directional tyres on an AWD car, I've never found a signifciant difference in feel that could be attributed to a tyre being directional or not, although arguably the GSD3 and other V-grooved tyres had better aquaplane resistance than the Asymmetric's in my experience. The biggest selling point to Asymmetric tyres for me is that the outer shoulder can be specifically designed to take the loading the outside edge takes during cornering, and that definitely does seem to help tyre wear.
Ennoch said:
Michelin SuperSports aren't available in 225 40 18 for a reasonable price unfortunately, especially relative to the PS4 which is touted as the replacement for the SS (although given Michelin's recent history of Pilot Sport naming conventions this could of course be completely wrong).
I've just purchased some Toyo Proxes T1R's in exactly this spec for a reasonable price, around £70 a cornerIve just changed the rears on the Jag (400Bhp) from Vredesteins to Conti Sport Contact 2's . Didnt like the look of the SC5 reviews so went with the older model. They are surprisingly good , certainly seems to be less sidewall movement and the grip is good wet and dry with a nice progressive feel as they get to the limit of grip.
I changed from the Vredesteins as although they have good grip the Jag just never felt planted on the road, always felt they were giving way too much and too quickly, and it was a bit too easy to spin up the rears.
I changed from the Vredesteins as although they have good grip the Jag just never felt planted on the road, always felt they were giving way too much and too quickly, and it was a bit too easy to spin up the rears.
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