'Another thing to go wrong'
Discussion
Does anyone generally go by this phrase anymore? I suppose it depends on the manufacturer. But say, if you had the option to have the same car with electronically adjustable seats with built in memory, or manual 'pull the lever and let go when comfortable'. Which would you go for?
This obviously doesn't apply to generally reliable electronics like ABS, electric windows (dont think anyone would choose wind up windows given the choice) or TC, but some of the more lazy conveniences like the seats, auto lights, auto wipers etc.
This obviously doesn't apply to generally reliable electronics like ABS, electric windows (dont think anyone would choose wind up windows given the choice) or TC, but some of the more lazy conveniences like the seats, auto lights, auto wipers etc.
EazyDuz said:
Does anyone generally go by this phrase anymore?
Yes, increasingly so. I used to scoff at it when I was young and my dad trotted out the old phrase, but mine, and others, experiences of things like electronic steering locks, electronic handbrakes, flappy paddle gearboxes, etc. suggests that due cause for use of the phrase is, if anything, increasing.Yes I'm no fan of the relentless making of a car into a stock exchange computer kiosk, does my head In tbh, it's like one of those Hollywood detective film jobbies with all the glass offices and ten thousand huge touchscreen puters all over the place
To tell them how to be detectives
To tell them how to be detectives
Having owned a number of Renaults I could say that with the complexity of some of the gadgets in my first Megane 225, there was plenty that could go wrong and by many accounts did.
That said, my daily is a 2003 E Class which has heated memory seats, electric adjustments on the steering rack, electric boot opening etc. It all works and works well. So I've been proven wrong that plenty of toys doesn't equate to more problems, just depends on the car in question.
That said, my daily is a 2003 E Class which has heated memory seats, electric adjustments on the steering rack, electric boot opening etc. It all works and works well. So I've been proven wrong that plenty of toys doesn't equate to more problems, just depends on the car in question.
J4CKO said:
Not really, most of it if it breaks wont stop the car working.
Perhaps not but it can make it uneconomical to repair and, in a society that in general no longer lives by the 'make do and mend' mantra, can result in an otherwise healthy car being sent to the knacker's yard prematurely.I don't think anyone would have an issue with electronic bits that have genuinely improved cars overall - e.g. ABS, airbags, electric windows, air-con - these are handy to have and in cases can save lives. It's the often unnecessary inclusion of complicated gizmos that were really not needed or asked for - particularly the bits that are the cause of big bills once the thing goes out of warranty.
The same goes for E-Brakes - how exactly does making an item that relies on reasonably low-tech, simple mechanics (wire+lever) into a highly-strung electro-mechanical linkage improve the owner's experience of using the car? Did some scientific study somewhere show that pulling a lever rather than pressing a button really makes owning that model of car less desirable?
(I'm not a fan of the electric handbrake).
I agree with Murphy's Law on this one - 'If it can go wrong - it will'. Then again, that ultimately pays my wages - so I'll shut up now.....
The same goes for E-Brakes - how exactly does making an item that relies on reasonably low-tech, simple mechanics (wire+lever) into a highly-strung electro-mechanical linkage improve the owner's experience of using the car? Did some scientific study somewhere show that pulling a lever rather than pressing a button really makes owning that model of car less desirable?
(I'm not a fan of the electric handbrake).
I agree with Murphy's Law on this one - 'If it can go wrong - it will'. Then again, that ultimately pays my wages - so I'll shut up now.....
On stuff like electronic handbrakes, I'd say a complicated system of a lever pulling a cable running the length of the car to a ratchet to apply the brakes has a much greater chance of failing than an electronic system.
By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On stuff like electronic handbrakes, I'd say a complicated system of a lever pulling a cable running the length of the car to a ratchet to apply the brakes has a much greater chance of failing than an electronic system.
By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
I'm not sure how you can consider a piece of chunky bowden cable (basically 150 year old technology) connected to a ratchet on a lever (probably 1000s of years old technology) to be in any way complicated, especially compared to anything that involves potentially dozens of electronic parts and wiring.By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On stuff like electronic handbrakes, I'd say a complicated system of a lever pulling a cable running the length of the car to a ratchet to apply the brakes has a much greater chance of failing than an electronic system.
By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
Most of the warranty claims are due to electrical/electronic faults these days...By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
An interesting topic, and a phrase doubtless spoken by many a previous generation of motorist, suspiciously eyeing up that new Ford Sierra.
I often look at the increasingly complex andoverly styled bullst intricate rear LED lights on modern stuff and wonder whether a failure is just a simple five minute bulb (LED unit) replacement on a Saturday morning, or a ££ trip to the local dealer's service dept.
In my experience, most car "failures" have been the damn sensors (variously ABS, knock, brake pad, something something) used to monitor the components, not that actual component themselves. And this is on cars of late 90s vintage, so just imagine the sensor-count on a 2016 Ecoboost Focus.
I often look at the increasingly complex and
In my experience, most car "failures" have been the damn sensors (variously ABS, knock, brake pad, something something) used to monitor the components, not that actual component themselves. And this is on cars of late 90s vintage, so just imagine the sensor-count on a 2016 Ecoboost Focus.
I say this. Not in cases where it improves the drive, but needless complication, oh yes. The thing is that I drive old cars, towards the end of their lives. So electric seats vs manual? Manual for me, how often do I move the seat anyway? Automatic wipers? I have this little stick poking out of the steering column, just by where I have to have my hands in order to steer, I’ll use that thanks. Similarly electric handbrakes. Get OFF! Bloody things are a hindrance, what can be simpler than a lever operating a cable and another mechanical lever?
The modern gizmos I wouldn’t be without – heated F&R screens, heated mirrors, lecky windows, central locking. Fuel injection is vastly superior to the old clockwork points and carbs that were only ever approximately right.
The modern gizmos I wouldn’t be without – heated F&R screens, heated mirrors, lecky windows, central locking. Fuel injection is vastly superior to the old clockwork points and carbs that were only ever approximately right.
It would depend on the usefulness of the device and whether it would leave me stranded/cost a fortune if it goes wrong. In general the mantra 'keep it simple stupid' is one I like to live by.
Things like electronic handbrakes worry me, if that thing sticks on how do you disengage it, how do you fix it, at what cost. How is it better than a lever and a cable?
Things like cruise control failing would just mean I have to modulate the throttle myself so that wouldn't worry me as much (unless I had recently paid a fortune for the car).
Things like electronic handbrakes worry me, if that thing sticks on how do you disengage it, how do you fix it, at what cost. How is it better than a lever and a cable?
Things like cruise control failing would just mean I have to modulate the throttle myself so that wouldn't worry me as much (unless I had recently paid a fortune for the car).
Nanook said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On stuff like electronic handbrakes, I'd say a complicated system of a lever pulling a cable running the length of the car to a ratchet to apply the brakes has a much greater chance of failing than an electronic system.
By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
I've never known anyone with a manual parking brake to be stuck because their parking brake won't release.By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
Electric ones, on the other hand...
patmahe said:
Things like electronic handbrakes worry me, if that thing sticks on how do you disengage it, how do you fix it, at what cost. How is it better than a lever and a cable?
On Disco 3/4 units at least - there is a manual overriding linkage that can be got at (which most owners don't know about - nor would they know where to look). As for how such a setup is better - goodness knows.... burns 0.2 less calories for every application of the handbrake/parking brake?Nealio said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
On stuff like electronic handbrakes, I'd say a complicated system of a lever pulling a cable running the length of the car to a ratchet to apply the brakes has a much greater chance of failing than an electronic system.
By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
I'm not sure how you can consider a piece of chunky bowden cable (basically 150 year old technology) connected to a ratchet on a lever (probably 1000s of years old technology) to be in any way complicated, especially compared to anything that involves potentially dozens of electronic parts and wiring.By and large, the fewer moving parts in a car, the better. It's a shame they can't solve the rotor tip wear issues with rotary engines, because if they could, there's far less to go wrong.
LandRoverManiac said:
On Disco 3/4 units at least - there is a manual overriding linkage that can be got at (which most owners don't know about - nor would they know where to look). As for how such a setup is better - goodness knows.... burns 0.2 less calories for every application of the handbrake/parking brake?
Primarily a packaging advantage for the manufacturer. It's much easier to find space for a small button than a big lever/ratchet assembly. The more modern systems that integrate the actuating motor into the rear brake calipers also means they don't need to route a pair of heavy duty bowden cables.Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 19th January 17:10
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