Charged £1,500 for repair that has not worked
Discussion
Just looking for advice if anyone has any, i took my car to my local vauxhall dealership because of a problem with electrics. I was told when booking in it would be a £79 diagnostic charge to see what was wrong and we would go from there, i received a phone call the next day saying it need new steering module and column which would be £1,500 to replace. After long deliberation i decided to go ahead with the repair.
2 days later i received another phone call expecting them to say that the car was ready but instead was told they were having problems programming the new module due to the fact there wi fi was not working properly.
The following morning i was contacted to be told that the first repair hadn't fixed the problem and that a new abs module was also required at a cost of nearly £1,200 on top of the original charges.
I was not told there could be any other charges other than the original £1,500 through there diagnosis or i would not have got it done, i am told now that i pay the original bill and take the car still not fixed or pay for the additional repair.
Has anyone encountered this before and how did you go about it.
2 days later i received another phone call expecting them to say that the car was ready but instead was told they were having problems programming the new module due to the fact there wi fi was not working properly.
The following morning i was contacted to be told that the first repair hadn't fixed the problem and that a new abs module was also required at a cost of nearly £1,200 on top of the original charges.
I was not told there could be any other charges other than the original £1,500 through there diagnosis or i would not have got it done, i am told now that i pay the original bill and take the car still not fixed or pay for the additional repair.
Has anyone encountered this before and how did you go about it.
Was it a main Vauxhall dealer?
I'm pretty sure you should not be charged for the first "repair" if they have done unnecessary work, but I appreciate sometimes you have to try something to see if it cures a problem.
Can they not send the unwanted part not required back for a credit to Vauxhall?
It's a difficult one.
I'm pretty sure you should not be charged for the first "repair" if they have done unnecessary work, but I appreciate sometimes you have to try something to see if it cures a problem.
Can they not send the unwanted part not required back for a credit to Vauxhall?
It's a difficult one.
Hi. I'm an auto electrician, and I have come across this before - usually with main dealers. And of course I have encountered the problem myself - I have (very rarely of course) mis diagnosed something, and fitted 2 set of parts. Of course, if the part's not expensive, that's fine, but when it's £1200 or so,that's a different matter.
From your description, I think the car has lost it CANBUS system, resulting in them not being able to read codes from the diagnostic system correctly. This will often come up as a comms issue, especially on the steering module, which contains one of the pair of shunt resistors used to prevent signal bounce. They have assumed this is the problem, and changed it. Losing the WIFI is irrelevant to your problem I think, but it just makes it impossible (or very difficult) to security code. Clearly the original culprit is the ABS system, which has been distorting the CAN signal.
My usual method of finding this is to look at the quality of the CAN signal. Once this is spotted as being bad, I will usually speak to the customer to advise this is the case, and explain the fault diagnosis system, which will often cost a few hundred quid, as you have to disconnet each unit from the CAN, one at a time. There are often 10 units connected, taking an hour or so each to disconnect, check the signal quality, and reconnect. (and then put all the bloody plastic trims back). They have clearly not done this, and this is their error.
You should not IMO be paying for the steering module switch and programming, unless they can convince you through that there has been a subsequent problem on the ABS. (It's possible, but unlikely). I suspect there will be a degree of compromise, but when I have made similar errors, I have not charged for parts or labour on the bits I have misdiagnosed.
From your description, I think the car has lost it CANBUS system, resulting in them not being able to read codes from the diagnostic system correctly. This will often come up as a comms issue, especially on the steering module, which contains one of the pair of shunt resistors used to prevent signal bounce. They have assumed this is the problem, and changed it. Losing the WIFI is irrelevant to your problem I think, but it just makes it impossible (or very difficult) to security code. Clearly the original culprit is the ABS system, which has been distorting the CAN signal.
My usual method of finding this is to look at the quality of the CAN signal. Once this is spotted as being bad, I will usually speak to the customer to advise this is the case, and explain the fault diagnosis system, which will often cost a few hundred quid, as you have to disconnet each unit from the CAN, one at a time. There are often 10 units connected, taking an hour or so each to disconnect, check the signal quality, and reconnect. (and then put all the bloody plastic trims back). They have clearly not done this, and this is their error.
You should not IMO be paying for the steering module switch and programming, unless they can convince you through that there has been a subsequent problem on the ABS. (It's possible, but unlikely). I suspect there will be a degree of compromise, but when I have made similar errors, I have not charged for parts or labour on the bits I have misdiagnosed.
Start putting things in writing...
ready for a small claims court if needed...
Dear sir (whoever runs the place)
thank you for the recent communication suggesting that actually the new steering column etc. didn't fix the problem and that instead I need a new ABS module.
I am slightly confused by this as I understood that in paying for diagnosis you would work out the issue and then fix it, however it would seem that the work you did didn't fix the issue - is it possible that the diagnosis was incorrect?
I would be grateful if you could explain the fitting of a new steering column etc. if that was not the solution to the issue.
Alternatively if the suggestion is now being made that to resolve the issue both a new steering column and new ABS module were needed, could you explain why this wasn't the outcome of the diagnosis work I paid for?
I am sure that you can understand that in paying for the diagnosis the expectation was clear that this would give us an understanding of the scope of repairs required, the budget needed and I would be able to make an accurate judgement on what I was prepared to pay for.
If the steering column is not required, then I assume you will not charge me for it.
If however the diagnosis was inaccurate and both items were needed, then I am sure you will understand that I may have made alternative decisions and the decisions made were based on inaccurate information provided by your company.
I would be grateful if you could clarify the situation as your original quote of xx for diagnosis and xxxx for repair appears to have been inaccurate.
once I receive this clarification I will be better placed to understand the situation and we can then make a decision on moving forward...
yours etc.
or something like that...
get it all in writing
ready for a small claims court if needed...
Dear sir (whoever runs the place)
thank you for the recent communication suggesting that actually the new steering column etc. didn't fix the problem and that instead I need a new ABS module.
I am slightly confused by this as I understood that in paying for diagnosis you would work out the issue and then fix it, however it would seem that the work you did didn't fix the issue - is it possible that the diagnosis was incorrect?
I would be grateful if you could explain the fitting of a new steering column etc. if that was not the solution to the issue.
Alternatively if the suggestion is now being made that to resolve the issue both a new steering column and new ABS module were needed, could you explain why this wasn't the outcome of the diagnosis work I paid for?
I am sure that you can understand that in paying for the diagnosis the expectation was clear that this would give us an understanding of the scope of repairs required, the budget needed and I would be able to make an accurate judgement on what I was prepared to pay for.
If the steering column is not required, then I assume you will not charge me for it.
If however the diagnosis was inaccurate and both items were needed, then I am sure you will understand that I may have made alternative decisions and the decisions made were based on inaccurate information provided by your company.
I would be grateful if you could clarify the situation as your original quote of xx for diagnosis and xxxx for repair appears to have been inaccurate.
once I receive this clarification I will be better placed to understand the situation and we can then make a decision on moving forward...
yours etc.
or something like that...
get it all in writing
Sound normal for Vauxhall that.
Plug in diagnostic tool, blindly follow what it suggests,replace parts and then act all surprised when it does not work. And expect the customer to pick the tab up for their incompetence.
I resolved the issue with the ex's car when she took it there by having a stand up argument with the mechanic on sat afternoon in the middle of the showroom. Followed by me showing them how to fix the car (followed advise from the Corsa forums !).
I'm still banned from that dealership but I dont care as I got away with only paying the diagnostic fee. Chief mechanic (random part swapper) looked ready to kill me afterwards so left pretty sharpish.
Having the stand up argument is perhaps not the best method, but I would go armed with as many facts as possible about the issue and try and resolve in a calm manner. I would suggest they but the parts back on the car they unnecessarily replaced that did not fix it. And not pay any labour costs for them.
Plug in diagnostic tool, blindly follow what it suggests,replace parts and then act all surprised when it does not work. And expect the customer to pick the tab up for their incompetence.
I resolved the issue with the ex's car when she took it there by having a stand up argument with the mechanic on sat afternoon in the middle of the showroom. Followed by me showing them how to fix the car (followed advise from the Corsa forums !).
I'm still banned from that dealership but I dont care as I got away with only paying the diagnostic fee. Chief mechanic (random part swapper) looked ready to kill me afterwards so left pretty sharpish.
Having the stand up argument is perhaps not the best method, but I would go armed with as many facts as possible about the issue and try and resolve in a calm manner. I would suggest they but the parts back on the car they unnecessarily replaced that did not fix it. And not pay any labour costs for them.
yes it it a main dealer, and no they are still expecting me to pay for the column and module.
Just what i have said to vauxhall is i got told that the first repair would fix the fault they never said at that stage that it could also be the abs or inwould not of got the work carried out.
Just what i have said to vauxhall is i got told that the first repair would fix the fault they never said at that stage that it could also be the abs or inwould not of got the work carried out.
bearman68 said:
Hi. I'm an auto electrician, and I have come across this before - usually with main dealers. And of course I have encountered the problem myself - I have (very rarely of course) mis diagnosed something, and fitted 2 set of parts. Of course, if the part's not expensive, that's fine, but when it's £1200 or so,that's a different matter.
From your description, I think the car has lost it CANBUS system, resulting in them not being able to read codes from the diagnostic system correctly. This will often come up as a comms issue, especially on the steering module, which contains one of the pair of shunt resistors used to prevent signal bounce. They have assumed this is the problem, and changed it. Losing the WIFI is irrelevant to your problem I think, but it just makes it impossible (or very difficult) to security code. Clearly the original culprit is the ABS system, which has been distorting the CAN signal.
My usual method of finding this is to look at the quality of the CAN signal. Once this is spotted as being bad, I will usually speak to the customer to advise this is the case, and explain the fault diagnosis system, which will often cost a few hundred quid, as you have to disconnet each unit from the CAN, one at a time. There are often 10 units connected, taking an hour or so each to disconnect, check the signal quality, and reconnect. (and then put all the bloody plastic trims back). They have clearly not done this, and this is their error.
You should not IMO be paying for the steering module switch and programming, unless they can convince you through that there has been a subsequent problem on the ABS. (It's possible, but unlikely). I suspect there will be a degree of compromise, but when I have made similar errors, I have not charged for parts or labour on the bits I have misdiagnosed.
A very helpful reply, even if most of it was gobbledegook to the layman.From your description, I think the car has lost it CANBUS system, resulting in them not being able to read codes from the diagnostic system correctly. This will often come up as a comms issue, especially on the steering module, which contains one of the pair of shunt resistors used to prevent signal bounce. They have assumed this is the problem, and changed it. Losing the WIFI is irrelevant to your problem I think, but it just makes it impossible (or very difficult) to security code. Clearly the original culprit is the ABS system, which has been distorting the CAN signal.
My usual method of finding this is to look at the quality of the CAN signal. Once this is spotted as being bad, I will usually speak to the customer to advise this is the case, and explain the fault diagnosis system, which will often cost a few hundred quid, as you have to disconnet each unit from the CAN, one at a time. There are often 10 units connected, taking an hour or so each to disconnect, check the signal quality, and reconnect. (and then put all the bloody plastic trims back). They have clearly not done this, and this is their error.
You should not IMO be paying for the steering module switch and programming, unless they can convince you through that there has been a subsequent problem on the ABS. (It's possible, but unlikely). I suspect there will be a degree of compromise, but when I have made similar errors, I have not charged for parts or labour on the bits I have misdiagnosed.
Why can't they make cars simple like in the 1960/70's?
richs2891 said:
Sound normal for Vauxhall that.
Plug in diagnostic tool, blindly follow what it suggests,replace parts and then act all surprised when it does not work. And expect the customer to pick the tab up for their incompetence.
As the auto-electrician already said...Plug in diagnostic tool, blindly follow what it suggests,replace parts and then act all surprised when it does not work. And expect the customer to pick the tab up for their incompetence.
bearman68 said:
My usual method of finding this is to look at the quality of the CAN signal. Once this is spotted as being bad, I will usually speak to the customer to advise this is the case, and explain the fault diagnosis system ... you have to disconnet each unit from the CAN, one at a time. There are often 10 units connected, taking an hour or so each to disconnect, check the signal quality, and reconnect. (and then put all the bloody plastic trims back)
At main dealer labour, that's easily north of a grand in diagnostic. It'll be cheaper to shotgun-replace in the vast majority of cases. This is one of the few times where it might actually not be - but even that's probably close-cut.TooMany2cvs said:
richs2891 said:
Sound normal for Vauxhall that.
Plug in diagnostic tool, blindly follow what it suggests,replace parts and then act all surprised when it does not work. And expect the customer to pick the tab up for their incompetence.
As the auto-electrician already said...Plug in diagnostic tool, blindly follow what it suggests,replace parts and then act all surprised when it does not work. And expect the customer to pick the tab up for their incompetence.
I'm slow at typing and on a slow connection, or are you just trying to score points by trying to belittle people ?
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