Keyless entry: theft risk / insurance / prevention

[havoc]

Given the increasing number of thefts of KESSY cars without the keys:-

- Where does an owner stand with insurance if there's no sign of forced-entry (i.e. someone's hacked the KESSY system)?
- What (aside from an ugly steering lock) can be done to reduce the risk?


I'm firmly of the opinion that keyless-entry / start is yet another bit of "tech for tech's sake", and is completely unnecessary. It also appears to be making thieves' lives easier...so why the **** are all the manufacturers doing it now?

[VGTICE]

RFID blocking pouch or sleeve should protect against these attacks. It'd be pain to use the key, and it will definitely be more difficult to use than normal non keyless entry one.

[mn1981]

As a recent victim of car theft with no sign of forced entry and keyless start but not entry - 2010 Mondeo Titanium X Sport, after usual questions (did you lock it etc.) the insurance paid out relatively fuss free. Was more hassle getting them to pay for the kiddie seats in the back! The police told me about 50% of the nicked cars they go to are Ford...

As for prevention, not sure anything other than a big steering lock or if on the drive overnight a clamp or post would do, whatever it is would have to be physical block.

Needless to say I went older and now have a proper key!

[jamoor]

Well if you have the keys for the car, there isn't much they can do.

If the car has vanished, its possible to steal it without sign of forced entry.

[zedx19]

mn1981 said:

As a recent victim of car theft with no sign of forced entry and keyless start but not entry - 2010 Mondeo Titanium X Sport, after usual questions (did you lock it etc.) the insurance paid out relatively fuss free. Was more hassle getting them to pay for the kiddie seats in the back! The police told me about 50% of the nicked cars they go to are Ford...

As for prevention, not sure anything other than a big steering lock or if on the drive overnight a clamp or post would do, whatever it is would have to be physical block.

Needless to say I went older and now have a proper key!

I have a 2012 Tit X Sport with keyless start, did you ever find out how they stole your car?

[havoc]

VGTICE said:

RFID blocking pouch or sleeve should protect against these attacks. It'd be pain to use the key, and it will definitely be more difficult to use than normal non keyless entry one.

Go-on, explain how - as I understand it the KESSY 'hacking' doesn't need your key to be anywhere around...

[VGTICE]

havoc said:

VGTICE said:

RFID blocking pouch or sleeve should protect against these attacks. It'd be pain to use the key, and it will definitely be more difficult to use than normal non keyless entry one.

Go-on, explain how - as I understand it the KESSY 'hacking' doesn't need your key to be anywhere around...

I assumed that by keyless you meant the relay method of stealing cars which applies to cars with keyless access (you walk up to your car and open it up without touching the key). This can be prevented by having your key in a RFID blocking pouch which stops crims from scanning your key from outside and relaying it to the car. If you're thinking of OBD theft, that can't be stopped by what I suggested obviously.

[havoc]

OK, so there's 2 different routes:-

- OBD (which i probably was thinking of)

- Relay (which, simplified, involves a slightly longer-range version of the purported RFID scam on contactless credit/debit cards - i.e. scanning/reading the passcode)

The 'key' question then is what range the KESSY signal works at?!?

[Nickbrapp]

havoc said:

OK, so there's 2 different routes:-

- OBD (which i probably was thinking of)

- Relay (which, simplified, involves a slightly longer-range version of the purported RFID scam on contactless credit/debit cards - i.e. scanning/reading the passcode)

The 'key' question then is what range the KESSY signal works at?!?

The keyless on my fiesta doesn't work unless you're within about a foot of the car, although I remember a story where Dan had the battery on his RRS SVR go flat as it was within a certain range of the car and if the car can see the key it keeps certain aspects of the car live

[VGTICE]

havoc said:

OK, so there's 2 different routes:-

- OBD (which i probably was thinking of)

- Relay (which, simplified, involves a slightly longer-range version of the purported RFID scam on contactless credit/debit cards - i.e. scanning/reading the passcode)

The 'key' question then is what range the KESSY signal works at?!?

1-1.5m IIRC. Someone could would walk alongside your house with a scanner, they would relay the signal if the key is stored close to doors/windows/walls, the other person would stand next to the car with receiver which does the handshake and unlocks/starts the car. Or in another scenario, if you parked in an underground car park it'd be easy to place scanners in walkways so that when you walk past certain locations signal gets picked up and one person opens the car and drives off.

[405dogvan]

Worth mentioning that the system KESSY uses is not vulnerable to 'sniffing' per-se - it works by the car and key constantly exchanging codes, effectively a series of question and answers which don't repeat and so can't be recorded and replayed.

Obviously you might determine the system used to determine the questions/responses but then you'd not need to sniff much to defeat any KESSY car if you could do that and unless they're very, very silly, that should be really, really hard.

I'd remind everyone tho that manufacturers having only a handful of unique keys is something WELL within living memory. Someone last me told me a story of how he drove his drunken mate home in his Capri - only it wasn't HIS Capri, it just so-happened that there were 2 Capris (not uncommon) and the keys were interchangeable (even less uncommon!) ;0

Then there was an age where people took whole ECUs around to steal cars with too

Happy Days!

[mn1981]

zedx19 said:

I have a 2012 Tit X Sport with keyless start, did you ever find out how they stole your car?

sorry, afraid not. No CCTV apparently (I only counted 12 cameras in the car park!) and not seen again..

[mybrainhurts]

havoc said:

- What (aside from an ugly steering lock) can be done to reduce the risk?

Weld the doors shut...

[havoc]

mybrainhurts said:

Weld the doors shut...

Great idea!

[mybrainhurts]

[anonymous-user]

VGTICE said:

RFID blocking pouch or sleeve should protect against these attacks. It'd be pain to use the key, and it will definitely be more difficult to use than normal non keyless entry one.

Picked up some of these for my old man from Amazon last week

He seems happy enough with them and has kept himself entertained testing them for an hour or two, for which my mother is very grateful!

[loose cannon]

havoc said:

Given the increasing number of thefts of KESSY cars without the keys:-

- Where does an owner stand with insurance if there's no sign of forced-entry (i.e. someone's hacked the KESSY system)?
- What (aside from an ugly steering lock) can be done to reduce the risk?


I'm firmly of the opinion that keyless-entry / start is yet another bit of "tech for tech's sake", and is completely unnecessary. It also appears to be making thieves' lives easier...so why the **** are all the manufacturers doing it now?

The more cars stolen the more cars that are bought to replace them

[JQ]

VGTICE said:

RFID blocking pouch or sleeve should protect against these attacks. It'd be pain to use the key, and it will definitely be more difficult to use than normal non keyless entry one.

Would placing the keys in a metal box achieve the same result?

[rovermorris999]

JQ said:

Would placing the keys in a metal box achieve the same result?

Yes. Just a Faraday cage.
I have keyless entry on two cars and thought it was a gimmick before I had it, now I prefer it. I even like automatic wipers now. Must be getting old.

[SVS]

If there’s no sign of forced entry, a report by This is Money states that insurers refuse to pay out.