The Internal Combustion Engine dead by 2025?
Discussion
- In new vehicles. What do you reckon?
Once the major manufacturers go all in with electric, all the other manufacturers will tumble like dominoes and follow suit.
Competition will breed hugely rapid progress and development and the range & charging time problem will be solved in a few years. UK-wide infrastructure will change, with smart motorways, charging points etc. It won't be long before you will be able to buy a family car with 0-60 in 4s, a range of 1000 miles and a charging time of 1 hour. Tesla's Model 3 will be the stepping stone and kindling to the future.
I have just bought a Subaru Impreza STI, I am not a vegetable munching EV nut, but I concede that this is the future.
Just look at Formula E - at the beginning it was considered a joke and a load of rubbish. Now look how many manufacturers are flocking to the series. As soon as battery progress allows them to get rid of car swaps and up the power it will be right up there.
This all might just happen sooner than we think.
Once the major manufacturers go all in with electric, all the other manufacturers will tumble like dominoes and follow suit.
Competition will breed hugely rapid progress and development and the range & charging time problem will be solved in a few years. UK-wide infrastructure will change, with smart motorways, charging points etc. It won't be long before you will be able to buy a family car with 0-60 in 4s, a range of 1000 miles and a charging time of 1 hour. Tesla's Model 3 will be the stepping stone and kindling to the future.
I have just bought a Subaru Impreza STI, I am not a vegetable munching EV nut, but I concede that this is the future.
Just look at Formula E - at the beginning it was considered a joke and a load of rubbish. Now look how many manufacturers are flocking to the series. As soon as battery progress allows them to get rid of car swaps and up the power it will be right up there.
This all might just happen sooner than we think.
In a word. No.
In a couple of words. EV tech may be moving fast all the time - but even the staunchest pro-EV types on here will admit that it has some way to go. There's a reason HM government set a target date of 2040 rather than 2030....*
(Besides kicking the issue waaaay down the road for someone else to deal with/work out.)
(Just another thing - Formula E is much like watching paint dry IMO. The only slightly amusing bit is the teams running around like headless chickens swapping over cars halfway through - much like they had to do with horses in the middle ages....)
In a couple of words. EV tech may be moving fast all the time - but even the staunchest pro-EV types on here will admit that it has some way to go. There's a reason HM government set a target date of 2040 rather than 2030....*
(Besides kicking the issue waaaay down the road for someone else to deal with/work out.)
(Just another thing - Formula E is much like watching paint dry IMO. The only slightly amusing bit is the teams running around like headless chickens swapping over cars halfway through - much like they had to do with horses in the middle ages....)
The death of petrol / diesel engines is being over played right now by a media keen to write news about anything.
Brexit is not going well. The government is not doing a great job, nor are the opposition. They need to sell papers.
Petrol engines were slated to die out as the rush to diesel cleared company car parks of petrol vehicles. Now things have turned around. I can see that EV will become the default choice for many and I fully expect to see the next Gen M3 to be running i8 running gear (which would be a cool car) but there will always be a petrol option on the list right up to the last because car manufacturers make cars for the whole world and unless Russia, China and America go fully EV then they won't be able to drop fuelled vehicles.
I think the most likely scenario is that for the non-car people who just need transport the driverless capable EV car will become the default, much in the same way the 1.6 Turbo Diesel became the default choice. However I can still see a market for die hard purchasers being satisfied until the law dictates to stop.
Brexit is not going well. The government is not doing a great job, nor are the opposition. They need to sell papers.
Petrol engines were slated to die out as the rush to diesel cleared company car parks of petrol vehicles. Now things have turned around. I can see that EV will become the default choice for many and I fully expect to see the next Gen M3 to be running i8 running gear (which would be a cool car) but there will always be a petrol option on the list right up to the last because car manufacturers make cars for the whole world and unless Russia, China and America go fully EV then they won't be able to drop fuelled vehicles.
I think the most likely scenario is that for the non-car people who just need transport the driverless capable EV car will become the default, much in the same way the 1.6 Turbo Diesel became the default choice. However I can still see a market for die hard purchasers being satisfied until the law dictates to stop.
The EV car is getting there, but no killer app. In this case fast recharging. The capacitor tec looks good and it they can get it to work charging will be super fast. Cost needs to come down. One these two happen then things will move fast. How long with will take is much harder to work out. But if you look at no real need to service (not in the way cars are done now) being able to fill up at home, being very fast. There is a lot going for them, just the sound will not be there.
No, because these things need to happen first and it'll be a tall order in 20 years, let alone 7½ years:
- EVs need to become profitable for car companies. As far as I know, this is not the case - far from it.
- EVs need to become more affordable for the consumer. Most mainstream affordable EVs (Leaf, Golf GTE etc) are currently high £20ks, getting on for £30k. That's brand new 3 series money and not affordable for most people (edited to add, even on lease - most normal people don't have £400 a month spare for a car! They're buying £5k secondhand cars or HP on £10k-15k cars. A Leaf is double that). In addition, once EVs become popular the government won't be able to afford to help buyers anymore, so subsidies will have to be removed. Currently, the government grant is up to £4500, which is a considerable amount.
- EVs need better range. In real world tests, most EVs are delivering about an 80-100 mile range. This is just about ok for people who don't carry things on the roof or tow, provided they have a charging station at work. Sure, Tesla do roof bars and have a 200-300 mile range (without it fitted), but they start at double the price of a Nissan Leaf.
- Charging stations need to become more common, particularly at places of work, on streets outside people's houses and in shared parking areas (not everyone has a private driveway with power).
- We need a lot more power stations. Look up how long Hinkley C is taking and go from there! Note that much of the expertise and technology for new Nuclear or renewable power stations comes from the EU, which will become much harder soon.
I can see the market being flooded with hybrids which will address the problems of faffing about with recharging or have to wait 30 minutes for a boost, particularly in towns. (People talk about how there aren't enough charging points for overnight charges and then it is countered by talk of lamppost charging points. In my road, there are maybe 30 houses, 8 lampposts, each house has 2-3 cars, in many cases these cars are parked on the drive, so there isn't really much space even if each lamppost has 2 or 3 leads coming off them (let's ignore the fact that the council is switching off these lampposts between midnight and 5am; maybe they will keep them on if we put money in to charge up our EV cars).)
Although I have yet to try a hybrid, I can't see any issues especially as the technology develops.
Although I have yet to try a hybrid, I can't see any issues especially as the technology develops.
Engines are used in a multitude of products such as generator sets, agricultural machinery, construction equipment, etc. - the list is endless. They operate in harsh environments, extreme temperatures and remote locations. These products are manufactured and sold worldwide, not just on our tiny island. Engines will continue to be used for decades to come.
Why is no one bothering to invest in hydrogen technology? More efficient than still using fossil fuels just in a different want and the internal combustion engine can remain...
Or does that idea not fit in with the bulls
t propaganda that's used to make the Green Party think the electricity to power EV's come from nowhere.
Or does that idea not fit in with the bulls
t propaganda that's used to make the Green Party think the electricity to power EV's come from nowhere. Speed Badger said:
- In new vehicles. What do you reckon?
Once the major manufacturers go all in with electric, all the other manufacturers will tumble like dominoes and follow suit.
Competition will breed hugely rapid progress and development and the range & charging time problem will be solved in a few years. UK-wide infrastructure will change, with smart motorways, charging points etc. It won't be long before you will be able to buy a family car with 0-60 in 4s, a range of 1000 miles and a charging time of 1 hour. Tesla's Model 3 will be the stepping stone and kindling to the future.
I have just bought a Subaru Impreza STI, I am not a vegetable munching EV nut, but I concede that this is the future.
Just look at Formula E - at the beginning it was considered a joke and a load of rubbish. Now look how many manufacturers are flocking to the series. As soon as battery progress allows them to get rid of car swaps and up the power it will be right up there.
This all might just happen sooner than we think.
No. 2040 allows continuance of hybrids.Once the major manufacturers go all in with electric, all the other manufacturers will tumble like dominoes and follow suit.
Competition will breed hugely rapid progress and development and the range & charging time problem will be solved in a few years. UK-wide infrastructure will change, with smart motorways, charging points etc. It won't be long before you will be able to buy a family car with 0-60 in 4s, a range of 1000 miles and a charging time of 1 hour. Tesla's Model 3 will be the stepping stone and kindling to the future.
I have just bought a Subaru Impreza STI, I am not a vegetable munching EV nut, but I concede that this is the future.
Just look at Formula E - at the beginning it was considered a joke and a load of rubbish. Now look how many manufacturers are flocking to the series. As soon as battery progress allows them to get rid of car swaps and up the power it will be right up there.
This all might just happen sooner than we think.
Nope, electric cars have already been around since the 1880's hybrids since 1910 ish and cars with a changeable battery pack from about the same time, so all the new ideas ain't that new and ok better batteries and shorter charging times are being developed but how long and at what price.
Hoofy said:
I can see the market being flooded with hybrids which will address the problems of faffing about with recharging or have to wait 30 minutes for a boost, particularly in towns. (People talk about how there aren't enough charging points for overnight charges and then it is countered by talk of lamppost charging points. In my road, there are maybe 30 houses, 8 lampposts, each house has 2-3 cars, in many cases these cars are parked on the drive, so there isn't really much space even if each lamppost has 2 or 3 leads coming off them (let's ignore the fact that the council is switching off these lampposts between midnight and 5am; maybe they will keep them on if we put money in to charge up our EV cars).)
Although I have yet to try a hybrid, I can't see any issues especially as the technology develops.
Surely all the cars parked on drives will charge from the house?Although I have yet to try a hybrid, I can't see any issues especially as the technology develops.
ruiner2000 said:
There isn't enough electrical generation capacity in the country for our existing demand let alone for mass ownership of electric cars. Whilst this may change in the future, it will not change in the 8 years to 2025.
Once Sizewell C and Hinkley C come online we'll have plenty of off-peak capacity for EVs. Peak load may still be dubious but that's not really much to do with EVs unless an awful lot of people are charging them during the day. I don't think EVs will ever increase market share fast enough to be a significant problem for the grid.
ETA: It's also worth noting that electricity consumption for other purposes in the UK has been falling steadily for years. I can't find up-to-date figures, but between 2005 (the point at which it started to fall) and 2015 UK electricity usage fell around 20%. I've no idea whether that rate of reduction is forecast to continue.
Edited by kambites on Monday 31st July 17:01
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